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Divinity: Original Sin
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hassan-i-sabbah

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424

i haven't played DA2 but DA1 is pretty similar to baldur's gate 1 and 2 in its gameplay, its an isometric top down view where you control a party of 6 (or less) with sorta real time combat with pause. personally i like them a lot better than DA1 and i liked DA1 too, and DA1 is definitely a successor

BG2 is kind of the prototype bioware RPG, every RPG they've ever made basically follows its template of intro sequence -> open ended overworld/hub where you get the gang together with an overarching goal that will set the main story in motion. BG2 is better though because the world is more open ended than anything else they've ever made, there's lots more cool secrets, tons of cool loot, the dungeons and main quests are very well designed for the most part, its all just executed very well

combat wise there is more depth to it than any other bioware game, though DA1 probably comes the closest. same basic real time with pause template though. its based on 2e d&d rules so theres lots of stats and numbers to keep track of if you like that stuff (i do). magic in the baldur's gate games (and infinity engine rpg's in general except planescape) is especially cool, there are a huge amount of cool spells and especially in the end game your clerics and especially arcane casters reach insane levels of godhood. character development and growth and the classes and stuff in general are all cool, there's cool class "kits" in bg2 (and bg1 in the enhanced edition) that let you do cool specializations, and the multi and dual class system is sort of arcane but versatile

if you want to try one i would suggest BG2, you won't really miss much from BG1, its a new story and it fills you in on the necessary backstory. BG1 is a cool game but its low level d&d which means you're going to spend a lot of time doing shit like kiting wolves with slings. it has a cool wilderness "can die any time" feel though. but BG2 is more accessible, doesn't take as long to really get rolling, and honestly more fun. i'm playing through it again kind of idly but its still fun when i play it, the combat and figuring out the right tactics to get through a hard encounter is really satisfying

as for the other infinity engine games the icewind dale games are cool but only if you like the combat i guess since they are really centered around dungeon crawling, its good dungeon crawling though. planescape is also very good but story focused and the combat is the least interesting, and magic isnt nearly as cool since it pauses combat and stuff. its a really cool game too though and if you like rpg's and don't mind the somewhat antiquated interface (personally i don't think the infinity engine interfaces are that bad at all) its definitely worth playing, its kind of in the canon
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Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:31 pm

Kith-Kanin

Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 4449

You should consider playing Divinity Original Sin. I've played a lot of RPG's and it's easily in my top 5. Story, mechanics, character development, interaction with the environment, hilariously awesome secrets, areas, bosses, it really has it all.

It doesn't hold your hand though so you are required to think and that can turn people off. Sometimes it's something as simple as looking at an environment and finding a tiny switch on a wall, or knowing to cast a "Rain Spell" on a burning ship to save it. You won't get a quest that tells you these things, you need to figure it out for yourself.

Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:03 pm

hassan-i-sabbah

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424

divinity is good but if he hasn't even played bg2 i think all the stuff everywhere might be kind of overwhelming, its kind of old school in not holding your hand, in some ways (especially the puzzles) i find it harder than bg2. also i think the story and quest lines are better and more interesting in bg2, the writing in divinity is decent but the actual setting and story is sort of generic and boring to me, i mostly keep playing to kill stuff and watch my numbers go up
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:23 am

Aerasal

Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437

you sold me on bg2. definitely going to get it next time I see it on sale. the thing I like most about these games is the combat. I love equipping and setting up my party, managing them during fights, and getting new skills and abilities to mess around with. I've looked into divinity but it didn't look as combat based/dungeon crawler as I was kinda wanting. bg2 seems to be more of what I want.

Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:06 am

hassan-i-sabbah

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424

well if that's your thing BG2 does it better than almost any other game with that format IMHO, at least as far as tactical and strategic depth goes. there will definitely be encounters where you will lose and have to look at your spell and equipment load out and change shit up to win unless you're just a savant at this stuff or use a guide

if you dont mind piracy the gog.com version of the game is really easy to pirate, even if you just want to check it out. just be wary that the starting dungeon is kind of a drag, but the game really opens up from there. you also might want to install a widescreen mod if you use that one to support modern resolutions. i'd ultimately recommend the fix pack and the tweak pack mods no matter what version of the game you get (tweak pack only for enhanced edition), but you don't need to install those if you just want a feel for things

actually even if you pirate its probably a better idea to just get enhanced because like i said my friend had no issue with that and could even join the multiplayer game i hosted with my legit steam copy
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:37 am

hassan-i-sabbah

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424

oh btw when i say its the template for all future bioware rpg's that unfortunately includes the joss whedon-esque NPC's and their banter can be kind of lame sometimes. on the up side its mostly restricted to certain characters (aerie, which is annoying because shes arguably the most powerful npc in the game, misnc and jan especially. neera in the enhanced edition is lame too) and overall its a lot better than their newer stuff, and some of the characters are actually cool (edwin ftw). and your party members will actually interact with each other and argue with each other and certain ones will eventually fight each other to the death if you put them in the party together, though you can mod that out if you want
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:40 am

Aerasal

Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437

I don't mind pirating especially for a game that old. I was just going to get it on steam for the convenience and so people on my friends list can see I like kewl games. It was only like 5-6 dollars on sale I think. 25 is definitely way too high though even for the enhanced edition and I'd pirate it before paying that.

does it have difficulty levels?

Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:35 am

hassan-i-sabbah

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424

yeah i would not pay $25, i got it on sale for like 7.50

yeah it does, i easy-normal-core rules-hard-insane i think? i usually play on core rules but use the tweaks mod to disable the chance of failure when scribing scrolls to your spellbook and dice rolls for hit points, which i think are annoying. you can adjust it whenever
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:49 am

Kith-Kanin

Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 4449

That's interesting because after I left the first city, I found the story very engaging. Definitely on the same level as BG2 for me, though not as good as BG2 and all the expansions and how it all tied in.

The best parts of the story begin on the quest to rescue the white witch. Everything from level 1-9 is pretty much just intro fluff generic stuff I found.

Not sure how far along you are now...

Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:29 pm

hassan-i-sabbah

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424

i'm doing the white witch search and got to hiberheim i think its called? i havent played in a couple weeks though
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:52 pm

Kith-Kanin

Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 4449

Ah. Pretty much once you're done hiberheim the story starts tying itself together nicely.

Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:19 pm

Aerasal

Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437

can one of ya'll tell me how spells and abilities work in baldurs gate? I've tried kinda googling around but I'm still not really sure. I've never played d@d and I'm not familiar with it at all.

The only system I'm familiar with is like that in da or most modern rpgs. your mana/stam regenerate and spells and abilities simply have cooldowns that you can cast until you're out of mana/stam. from what I can tell baldurs gate is different than this though.

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:50 pm

hassan-i-sabbah

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424

yeah there's no mana/mp in d&d. abilities and spells in bg and other d&d games, whether they are inherent, come from an item, memorized from your priest scroll or spell book are restricted to being used a certain number of times per day. a "day" isn't actual 24 hours of game time though, it just means that you get a certain number of times to use the given ability or spell, and then when you run out you will have to rest to use it again. after resting you will have the charges back. for example, if you can cast draw upon holy might twice per day and you cast it twice, you will not be able to use draw upon holy might again until you rest

the most common abilities you'll be using are spells. spells are divided into certain levels, 1-9 and are written in your spell book (scroll if you are a cleric or druid). to use a spell from your spell book, you have to memorize it, and you can memorize a certain number of spells from a certain spell level per day. a level 3 mage might be able to memorize/cast 3 level 1 spells, 2 level 2 spells, and 1 level 3 spell a day for example (just made those numbers up). you have a certain number of memorization slots per day, determined by your level and also things like equipment. note you memorize spell uses, not spells generally. for example, if you have 3 level 1 slots and put magic missile in one of the slots, you will only be able to cast magic missile once before you will have to rest to be able to cast it again. however, if you wanted to use it more than that, you could devote all 3 slots to magic missile and you could cast it 3 times before resting (but then you couldn't use any other level 1 spells that day). you get new spells in your spell book by finding scrolls and scribing them to your book, you can also use the scrolls as consumables to cast the spell once without memorizing it. clerics and druids get new spells in their scrolls automatically when they level up

sorcerers work somewhat differently: rather than having a spell book, their magic is inherent, no memorization or writing down. sorcerers have a certain number of spell slots for a given spell level, and can use any spells they know from that level at any time as long as they have remaining slots. when sorcerers level they get to pick from a number of arcane spells to learn. it works like this: let's say your sorcerer can cast 5 level 1 spells per day, and the level 1 spells your sorc knows are magic missile, chromatic orb, armor, grease and color spray. you can cast those 5 spells 5 times a day in any combination: 5 magic missiles, 4 mm's and 1 chromatic orb, 3 armors and 2 color sprays, etc. slightly different from a mage, main difference is that mages are more versatile in a wider sense (they can always add different spells to their spell books and memorize any spells they want (unless they are a specialist), but they are limited in specific counters to whatever they happened to memorize for the day), while sorcerers are more versatile in the short term (you don't have to plan what to memorize and can adjust to situations better on the fly, but you're stuck with whatever spells you decided to learn and can't learn more).

as far as casters go if you want to play an arcane caster i think sorcerers are the way to go over a mage, because 1) there are two insanely powerful mage or multiclass NPC's who can join your party, maybe 3 with the enhanced edition, and a couple other very solid ones and 2) while its nice to have a wide variety of spells to choose from, there's also a lot of shitty ones and with a sorc you can usually take the best ones and let someone else in your party fill in the blanks

other abilities are simpler, they tend to either be inherent (i.e. a bard can use their bard song a certain number of times a day, a high level fighter can use flurry a certain number of times a day, a thief can lay a snare trap a certain number of times a day, these tend to get higher with your level) or associated with items (equipping carsomyr lets you cast dispel magic 3x a day), and you'll get them back when you rest just like the spells

i think that about covers it lol, it probably doesnt make much sense so i can explain parts better if its confusing
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Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:31 pm

Aerasal

Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437

that makes sense, thx. how does resting work? can you do it anywhere or only certain places? is there a limit to how many times you do it? if not, do people just rest after each fight? and does resting restore hp?

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:07 pm

hassan-i-sabbah

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424

in most towns you have to find an inn to rest, but you can rest in most dungeons and wilderness locations. there are some specific locations you can't rest in but for the most part you can rest wherever, though in dungeons and wilderness you risk being awoken by monster spawns

you can do it as much as you want, again with the risk of monster spawning. yes, you can cheese this if you want

resting will restore a low amount of hp, but there's a gameplay option "rest until hp restored" where it will automatically rest as long as you need and also automatically use any healing spells you have memorized (off screen so it doesnt waste your time watching all the animations), i pretty much always use it
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Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:50 pm

Aerasal

Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437

I went ahead and got divinity original sin. I wanted to play bg2 and may still but I was kinda turned off by the old ui and just having no idea about d&d rules. I don't doubt it's a great game though.

I'm liking divinity tho. It's got kind of an adventure game feel to do it imo like kings quest or space quest with added combat. I played those as a kid but haven't played any adventure games in years.

some things with the ui and inventory kinda bug me. I dislike how if you just want to vendor with someone you have to go through their chat prompt. the "i'll take my leave" option isn't always an option on the first prompt. I also prefer a shared inventory vs everyone having their own (not sure if the infinity rpgs were like this, im thinking maybe they were?). comparing gear and just moving stuff between the inventories is kinda tedious and more clicking.

combat is pretty fun. I'm about lev 8 atm. I've read repeatably how hard the early levels are but I haven't had too much trouble with it so far. maybe my party composition has helped. one of my starting chars was a mage and I use jahan. I make spell casters in every rpg but from what I can tell the game would be a lot harder not using wizards. they seem to have have way more cc and utility than any other class and cc is king so far from what I can tell. I took glass cannon and the extra range on my two wizards and nothing can touch them.

story seems uninteresting so far and the dialogue really sucks. I end up skipping and skimming a lot of it. I'm not even sure what's going on other then I'm a source hunter investigating a murder and there's a trippy time place. overall though it's still a pretty fun game.

Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:51 pm

hassan-i-sabbah

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424

wizards are hugely powerful because of the way environmental and elemental effects interact and the way having multiple wizards gives you way more options for mixing them up. wizards are hugely powerful in most rpg's really heh. but yeah i made a cleric and a ranger and i kinda wish i had had a mage. i do really like this game but there are a few niggling little things about it like the inventory management and crafting and the story and dialogue like you mention, i haven't played it in awhile to be honest. but i've been really really busy, and my one friend got into crusader kings 2 so i've been playing that a lot when i'm gaming. definitely still wanna finish it though
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Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:03 pm

Kith-Kanin

Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 4449

End game the melee characters are more powerful.

The story gets more interesting past the first area/city. Way more interesting.

Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:38 pm

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