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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
Well that's interesting. I have never researched it before in a serious game. I still think the siege time is too long for it to be effective in battle. It's like walking a siege tank into the middle of a fight and sieging it. It would be cool if you could siege it before having to select a target so you could prepare for incoming forces.
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Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:46 pm |
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Sparkz102
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 2999
Location: War2 |
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Well that's interesting. I have never researched it before in a serious game. I still think the siege time is too long for it to be effective in battle. It's like walking a siege tank into the middle of a fight and sieging it. It would be cool if you could siege it before having to select a target so you could prepare for incoming forces.
i agree, the set up time and casting range really can work against u - i wouldnt recommend the ability on zerg until u see ultras because of that, but in my scenario, vs immortals, it was ideal - maybe even tvt thors 250m on tanks or opposing thors
with some more pactice with them, its almost a rush/lust kinda thing and the 250m destroys chokes, - cast it on some depots and ur in their base -almost making the seige from the tank unneeded
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:45 am |
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DrunkeN
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 616
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I use 250mm in 2s if I mech, it's kinda of pt less.
DPS of reg attack near the same if not the same of 250 mm.
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:48 am |
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kublikhan
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 2849
Location: Schaumburg, IL |
quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
Seems a bit much to me. Every change they made is practically a nerf for toss. I don't get it. Why would they make voids shit? I mean a non charged void is useless. Now a charged voids is crap.
Range change to roach rape any fast expand with cannon strat. They removed the mana bars from corrupters and thors. Only reason for that is to nerf feedback. Toss are running out of options.
Voidrays weren't much of a problem in diamond 1v1, but voids were really ripping up terrans in the lower leagues and in team games. It seems the void nerf was aimed more at those matchups rather than 1v1 diamond.
I usually don't get 250mm for the thors. Doesn't seem like a very good ability to me:
Never research the 250 mm cannon - ever.
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:04 pm |
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Biggs.
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 415
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quote:
Originally posted by kublikhan
quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
Seems a bit much to me. Every change they made is practically a nerf for toss. I don't get it. Why would they make voids shit? I mean a non charged void is useless. Now a charged voids is crap.
Range change to roach rape any fast expand with cannon strat. They removed the mana bars from corrupters and thors. Only reason for that is to nerf feedback. Toss are running out of options.
Voidrays weren't much of a problem in diamond 1v1, but voids were really ripping up terrans in the lower leagues and in team games. It seems the void nerf was aimed more at those matchups rather than 1v1 diamond.
I usually don't get 250mm for the thors. Doesn't seem like a very good ability to me:
Never research the 250 mm cannon - ever.
Agree with voidrays not been much of a problem in 1v1 diamond. I almost never use them, unless I`m playing late game against a terran with Planetary Fortress.
I made my peace with marauders, I still think they are a little OP, but not as much compared with PF and late game mules.
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:19 pm |
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7VlesSiah
Joined: 16 Feb 2001
Posts: 2456
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You guys talk as if no one else in this forum is diamond 1v1. I used them regularly and was top 5 to 10. They were a nice change up strat for toss.
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:50 pm |
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kublikhan
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 2849
Location: Schaumburg, IL |
Let me rephrase:
Even though many of us diamond players don't think voidrays needed to be beat up with the nerf bat, the 90% percent of players below us were having a much harder time dealing with void rays. IE, blizzard is trying to balance the game not just with us diamond players in mind, but with the other 90% of players playing this game as well. Voidrays might have been a good strat in diamond, but apparently they were a rapetastic strat in sub-diamond leagues. At least that is the general feel I got after reading blizzard's post and stats.
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Give me a lever long enough and I shall move the world. - Archimedes
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:17 pm |
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Biggs.
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 415
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quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
You guys talk as if no one else in this forum is diamond 1v1. I used them regularly and was top 5 to 10. They were a nice change up strat for toss.
That you use them regularly doesn´t mean that your opponents had problems with them, it just make them another unit. As Kub said, at lower levels they seem to be a huge problem to a vast mayority of players.
Personally, I do not like them much.
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:53 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Sypher
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
and prob a good idea to do this w/ corruptors. i've never ran out of energy with them and I don't think a toss has ever felt the need to use feedback against one.
are you kidding? Late game collosus + templar is so good vs corruptor
I rarely get them vs toss. I don't even remember the last time a toss player has gone air vs me beyond mid game. 99% of my games vs toss involve some heavy gateway/robo push and usually end one way or another soon after.
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Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:35 pm |
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Sypher
Joined: 18 Sep 2000
Posts: 5698
Location: Detroit, MI |
You get corruptors to stop Collosus.
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Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:35 pm |
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Kith-Kanin
Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 4449
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
quote:
Originally posted by Sypher
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
and prob a good idea to do this w/ corruptors. i've never ran out of energy with them and I don't think a toss has ever felt the need to use feedback against one.
are you kidding? Late game collosus + templar is so good vs corruptor
I rarely get them vs toss. I don't even remember the last time a toss player has gone air vs me beyond mid game. 99% of my games vs toss involve some heavy gateway/robo push and usually end one way or another soon after.
Voidrays are really strong versus zerg. You can do a 2 gateway hard push with just mass zealots and meanwhile be collecting all that gas so that if he even does defend the rush he'll need zeals/banelings. Put a few cannons at your choke, and keep pumping zealots, and meanwhile you're making 2-3 voidrays, go in by his gas take it down and then they're fully charged.
Fully charged rays rape the shit out of 3-4 queens no problem.
I've done this strat to about 10 top 5 diamond zergs and the only time I lost was when the zerg did an all in ling/baneling--my choke was also huge so he was able to get through my mass of zealots and break in.
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Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:23 pm |
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Kyr.Luoson
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 1696
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quote:
Originally posted by Kith-Kanin
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
quote:
Originally posted by Sypher
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
and prob a good idea to do this w/ corruptors. i've never ran out of energy with them and I don't think a toss has ever felt the need to use feedback against one.
are you kidding? Late game collosus + templar is so good vs corruptor
I rarely get them vs toss. I don't even remember the last time a toss player has gone air vs me beyond mid game. 99% of my games vs toss involve some heavy gateway/robo push and usually end one way or another soon after.
Voidrays are really strong versus zerg. You can do a 2 gateway hard push with just mass zealots and meanwhile be collecting all that gas so that if he even does defend the rush he'll need zeals/banelings. Put a few cannons at your choke, and keep pumping zealots, and meanwhile you're making 2-3 voidrays, go in by his gas take it down and then they're fully charged.
Fully charged rays rape the shit out of 3-4 queens no problem.
I've done this strat to about 10 top 5 diamond zergs and the only time I lost was when the zerg did an all in ling/baneling--my choke was also huge so he was able to get through my mass of zealots and break in.
No offence but you must be playing bad players, zealot only rush gets owned hard by any decent zerg, get 1 roach and mirco and u can kill endless amount of zealots. I find rays pretty useless vs zerg because most have get at least 2-3 queens with tranfuse or a hydra den.. From my exp it only works if they do a 6 pool or you somehow hurt them early game because they suck...
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Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:35 pm |
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Kith-Kanin
Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 4449
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyr.Luoson
quote:
Originally posted by Kith-Kanin
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
quote:
Originally posted by Sypher
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
and prob a good idea to do this w/ corruptors. i've never ran out of energy with them and I don't think a toss has ever felt the need to use feedback against one.
are you kidding? Late game collosus + templar is so good vs corruptor
I rarely get them vs toss. I don't even remember the last time a toss player has gone air vs me beyond mid game. 99% of my games vs toss involve some heavy gateway/robo push and usually end one way or another soon after.
Voidrays are really strong versus zerg. You can do a 2 gateway hard push with just mass zealots and meanwhile be collecting all that gas so that if he even does defend the rush he'll need zeals/banelings. Put a few cannons at your choke, and keep pumping zealots, and meanwhile you're making 2-3 voidrays, go in by his gas take it down and then they're fully charged.
Fully charged rays rape the shit out of 3-4 queens no problem.
I've done this strat to about 10 top 5 diamond zergs and the only time I lost was when the zerg did an all in ling/baneling--my choke was also huge so he was able to get through my mass of zealots and break in.
No offence but you must be playing bad players, zealot only rush gets owned hard by any decent zerg, get 1 roach and mirco and u can kill endless amount of zealots. I find rays pretty useless vs zerg because most have get at least 2-3 queens with tranfuse or a hydra den.. From my exp it only works if they do a 6 pool or you somehow hurt them early game because they suck...
Sounds fine, and maybe they do suck. I know the one guy I beat had around 400 games played and about 250 won so I dunno.
It works best when the FE at like 14 drones or so. You hit with about 6 zealots, do whatever damage you can--focus queens and drones. Then just keep making zeals but fast tech to voids. If you bring your voids in and immediately focus on his extractor they will be super charged. Then even 3 queens can't stop you. You can focus one queen and have it killed almost instantly, even if they get 2 heals off it will die before your voidray is at half health.
I never said it was impossible to beat or anything. I've just found that it works really well. The damage you do from your 2 gate rush puts them in such a position that they either stay tier 1 and baneling/roach/zerg and try and finish, or most times they lose to voidrays.
It depends on the map, and position too of course. If they're halfway across earth then of course it doesn't work well.
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Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:58 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Sypher
You get corruptors to stop Collosus.
I rarely do this. I don't find it's cost effective and if you lose your corruptors without taking out his collosus, you're fucked. I just go for a heavier roach composition if I see collosus coming. I'm usually speed teching to ultras in this matchup no matter what. Sometimes I'll try to get cute with infestors but this is just as risky as corruptors. As the game goes on things change but 99% of my pvz games are over in 10-15 minutes.
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Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:01 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
yeah 2 gate zealot rushes still work pretty well in close positions. I will usually throw up a roach den before my natural if I see this, which sometimes I'll go for a hard roach push instead of expanding if I see him throwing up a forge. I have a tougher time dealing with a 2 gate into 3-4 gate push since it doesn't give you much time to breath. As soon as I see a forge, I know that he's either pulling some gay VR or DT shit or leapfrogging into an FE. Either case gets owned by a roach push.
If I just blindly FE, I'll usually either end up having to cancel it or take it up the ass until my den is done.
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Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:11 pm |
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