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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
zerg buffs coming
dustin bowder did a report on starcraft 2
basically he says roaches + range coming, rax requires a depot first, reaper upgrade on factory. fungal growth prevents blink, + increase zerg building health
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/882511#blog
So basically it's going to remove reapers as an early tech option. I can't see them being very useful at all with these changes
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:18 pm |
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Rat
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1045
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ya they can just remove reapers now and replace it with another unit.
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GreenHorn: Nexus cried every time I beat him but still thought he was better.
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:01 pm |
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foonat
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 7716
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quote:
Originally posted by Rat
ya they can just remove reapers now and replace it with another unit.
good idea
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:43 pm |
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Sparkz102
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 2999
Location: War2 |
blizzards gonna ruin this game if they keep doing these stupid 'balance' changes
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I am also a contradiction of my own lies
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:04 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
well, I think the key thing is that terrans will have one less opening for zerg to worry about + it's frustrating to have to deal with an indestructible enemy 5 minutes into the game and have to rely on your opponents' weakness in macroing to not fall behind. Thinking about it, I think reapers will still have a use early game (scout), and they'll probably become more popular mid/late game as backdoor units and expansion stoppers.
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:17 pm |
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Axolotl
Joined: 14 Sep 2000
Posts: 3772
Location: Vancouver BC |
Not knowing enough about all the races to make any personal comments, I will say that this seems very strange based on the less than 50% winning percentages terran have against zerg already.
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:26 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
I think it's more to do with high level play + the gameplay mechanics. Getting reaper harassed every game is like getting OT'd every game in war2 when your opponent is coming from an un-OTable position. As far as high level play, reapers are invulnerable if controlled correctly so technically if the map allows it, you will always be at an advantage vs a zerg player if you do this effectively.
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:31 pm |
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Mez
Joined: 01 Nov 2001
Posts: 299
Location: melb/vic/aus |
quote:
Originally posted by Axolotl
Not knowing enough about all the races to make any personal comments, I will say that this seems very strange based on the less than 50% winning percentages terran have against zerg already.
The statistics are pretty retarded and shouldn't even be used for balance issues. Despite them saying " These numbers take individual player skill into account." The amount of "good" players are so low, that they make up around less than 5% of the total diamond player pool. So really, the match making system is working accurately for everyone else (the larger player pool) hence all matchups being very close to the 50% mark.
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:41 pm |
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Mez
Joined: 01 Nov 2001
Posts: 299
Location: melb/vic/aus |
quote:
Originally posted by Shotgun_
lol what? speedlings own reapers, zerg players are such fucking whingers. They won't stop QQing until their race is clearly OP to the rest. Factory for reapers is rediculous, learn to scout.
Why don't you switch to zerg then? You won't stop crying about how imbalanced they are and how crappy terran is, right?
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:43 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
I don't really have any major issues with zerg balancing right now, but the fact remains that reaper harass is still OP , even after the nerf, and it's infuriating to play against. It's like every game, MC Hammer runs into your base and starts breakdancing and you can't fucking touch this.
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:06 pm |
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Sparkz102
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 2999
Location: War2 |
quote:
Originally posted by Shotgun_
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
I don't really have any major issues with zerg balancing right now, but the fact remains that reaper harass is still OP , even after the nerf, and it's infuriating to play against. It's like every game, MC Hammer runs into your base and starts breakdancing and you can't fucking touch this.
rofl nice
reapers are a tier 1.5 unit, i think we can all agree on this seeing they come out of ur basic tier 1 production unit, and require an extra building at the tier 1 stage, tech lab.
tier 1 - zerglings [speedlings], marines [hp buff, stim], zealots [chargelots]
tier 1.5 - banelings [grooves], roaches [late upgrades], stalkers [blink], sentry [huallucination, forcefield, stasis field], marauder[stim,shells], reaper (cliff jumping)[speed boost (which is slower than speedling upgrade)]
so now that we've established solid information, let's discuss.
reapers, are the weakest tier 1.5 unit in the game, they cannot beat out any othet 1.5 unit, cept banelings with some micro, they can only beat tier 1 units like zealots with micro, however once they are upgraded, reapers even with their upgrade, can no longer take any tier 1 as an upgraded tier 1.5. furthermore any unit they beat requires more intense micro than other units, perhaps why all the attention is them as they are also not battle intensive, soft hp [45] units.
it seems i've almost proved reapers are the weakest overall unit from any tier1 - what makes them a threat, is their ability to jump cliffs - neutralize this threat by scouting, engagement [no1's gonna make reapers when fightering as i've proved they are horrible battle intensive], stalkers, and prevention by simply putting a unit at the edge of ur base, really is that easy to stop reapers.
honestly, tell me how reapers are overpowered. zerg babies cry. sorry that u guys cant just build units and a-attack.. i mean wait. and dont tell me queen is a base defense mechanism like retarded war3, queen is compared to the mule/scan [extra larva/tumor] and to the toss constant chronoboost.. and toss - every toss unit is designed as a counter in itself. if zerg want to complain, it should be about their mega late game; as in, toss have a mothership, and terran have nukes, zerg needs that, the late game win, and buff fucking hydra jesus that solves everything give them armor attack, no other zerg unit besides ultra, have an extra armor dmg unit. i think this is their downfall when it comes to battle as the unit counter isnt really a countering unit.
i honestly think fault lies in the game being young, millions of minds figure out millions of gameplay possibilities . dont even get me started on seige tanks
also, now weakening seige tanks and reapers, u'll see a higher usage of thors and marau, putting them at bat for the next zerg buff - who wouldnt nerf thors n marau?
all said in done, as in real life, cutting others down[nerfing terrran] to make u look bigger[intent of buffing zerg], never works.
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I am also a contradiction of my own lies
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:52 pm |
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Kyr.Luoson
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 1696
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I dont think blizzard actually thinks there patches through and just has a tunnel vision view on what there patching.
Roach nerf will make protoss forge fast expand obsolete as players will now have to put there cannon right next to the gateway to reach a roach, and the roach can now just snipe the cannons..
I am losing faith very quickly that they actually have a clue on what to balance most the stuff they come up with have nothing to do with actually needs balancing..
Another indirect nerf to protoss, haven't had a proper buff since like mid Beta just a bunch of nerfs..
Something needs fixing about Maurders and Marines vs Protoss it's way to strong early/mid game and is only countered by costly tier 3 templar/collosi which can still be sniped and countered by tier 2 Terrans (vikings and EMP)
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:57 pm |
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foonat
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 7716
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
I don't really have any major issues with zerg balancing right now, but the fact remains that reaper harass is still OP , even after the nerf, and it's infuriating to play against. It's like every game, MC Hammer runs into your base and starts breakdancing and you can't fucking touch this.
this was awesome
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:09 pm |
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7VlesSiah
Joined: 16 Feb 2001
Posts: 2456
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyr.Luoson
I dont think blizzard actually thinks there patches through and just has a tunnel vision view on what there patching.
Roach nerf will make protoss forge fast expand obsolete as players will now have to put there cannon right next to the gateway to reach a roach, and the roach can now just snipe the cannons..
I am losing faith very quickly that they actually have a clue on what to balance most the stuff they come up with have nothing to do with actually needs balancing..
Another indirect nerf to protoss, haven't had a proper buff since like mid Beta just a bunch of nerfs..
Something needs fixing about Maurders and Marines vs Protoss it's way to strong early/mid game and is only countered by costly tier 3 templar/collosi which can still be sniped and countered by tier 2 Terrans (vikings and EMP)
Yeah, this is huge. I don't know how toss can deal with this. Right now toss can only fast expo cause zerg need lair units to break the wall in.
Every toss has messed up their cannon placement before so that roaches can still hit it. You get run over when this happens. Being forced to 4 gate every game against zerg will be horrible. Especially since they nerfed it.
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:33 am |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
the only thing this will change for toss is that they'll have to decide whether to make gateway units or probes a little earlier instead of just spamming probes for 8 minutes before having to worry about anything.
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:09 am |
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7VlesSiah
Joined: 16 Feb 2001
Posts: 2456
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Nah.. if zerg do a timing push with roaches they'll run over a dual.
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:28 pm |
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Sypher
Joined: 18 Sep 2000
Posts: 5698
Location: Detroit, MI |
roach range increase could be game breaking. Gonna have to see how it plays out. I think it would have made more sense to up base move speed for non-upgraded roaches while off creep.
Other than that, changes seem pretty good. All the terran QQers need to stfu. Reapers are still great units to scout with and to control xel'naga towers.
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"I tend to thougoughly enjoy my encounters significantly more with 120+ types, as I find them more stimulating. 100-110 people are okay too operating at full capacity." - Paper_Boy
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:52 pm |
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DrunkeN
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 616
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lol telling terrans to stop QQ....wonder when the zergs and toss will stop.
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:13 pm |
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Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
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*6 months pass by*
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.2.0
Balance Changes
* Fungal growth now prevents stalkers from blinking
* Terran
o Barracks
+now requires supply depo
o Reapers
+speed upgrade now requires factory
* ZERG
o Roach
+ +1 increase in range
o Zerg buildings
+all buildings +100 health
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:23 pm |
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Kalmah
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 51
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I think reapers aren't that good at start against zerg, just pop a few spine crawlers and thats it.
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Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:11 am |
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Sypher
Joined: 18 Sep 2000
Posts: 5698
Location: Detroit, MI |
quote:
Originally posted by Kalmah
I think reapers aren't that good at start against zerg, just pop a few spine crawlers and thats it.
you're dumb.
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"I tend to thougoughly enjoy my encounters significantly more with 120+ types, as I find them more stimulating. 100-110 people are okay too operating at full capacity." - Paper_Boy
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Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:32 am |
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