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Ocram-OB
Joined: 05 Aug 2003
Posts: 2600
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quote:
Originally posted by Eradicate
Name a movie more important?
fear and loathing in las vegas.
name a movie less important than the passion. it is way more difficult.
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Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:26 pm |
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ThePanacea
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 1466
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Note: Now it's ranked #12, which makes it the top R rated movie. Does this count DVD sales?
I haven't seen it and definitely don't plan to.
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Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:20 pm |
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ghostnuke
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 5668
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quote:
Originally posted by JiGGa_MaN
There isnt a Jesus movie out there that had any profound impact period. Fact is, Ben-Hur was given the tag line "A Story in parallel with HIS life". It was meant to be about Jesus, without actually being ABOUT JESUS. Or so the Director of the film opined. And Ben-Hur is still considered a great film, that people still think about and watch.
Ben-Hur is completely standard by the numbers "Hollywood Epic." It's as important as Titanic.
quote:
Originally posted by JiGGa_MaN
This movie is different from the others, since its only the last 12 hours of his life, which is a part of his life that most filmakers have done a great job avoiding.
Um no it's not, it's just that most filmmakers aren't sadistic gorehounds who (AMAZINGLY) think Jesus's life and teachings are more important than the way he died.
quote:
Originally posted by JiGGa_MaN
The Last Temptation of Christ never had this much fanfare going on around it.
Were you in a cave? There was way more controversy surrounding Last Temptation than there was around Passion. Last Temptation didn't do as well commercially because most of the controversy came from Protestants and other Christians who are a much larger and louder group in America than Jews, no matter how many "OMG JEW CONSPIRACY" bullshit people throw around. And even though it didn't do as well commercially, critically Last Temptation was much more well recieved. As time passes people will look back on Temptation as a profound and important film that examined Jesus and Christianity in interesting and thought-provoking ways, while people will look back on the Passion similar to the way they'll look back on something like Gladiator: A well-made historical film, but nothing earth-shattering that really touches us in a special way, either emotionally or intellectually. And Passion will be lucky to be looked upon that favorably, because if you've been paying attention to the reviews they're very mixed. The facts are this: The Last Temptation of Christ was made by one of the greatest filmmakers of the last fifty years. The Passion of the Christ was directed by Mad Max.
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Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:30 pm |
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ThreeUp3Down
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 627
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I'm going to see it but I won't pay for this POS but that way I will be able to critize and rightfully claim I've seen it. However I speculate it's a bunch of shit that only dumbass Christian hipocrites will enjoy.
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Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:37 pm |
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JiGGa_MaN
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 10014
Location: Future home of the Stanley cup, Ottawa |
quote:
Originally posted by ghostnuke
quote:
Originally posted by JiGGa_MaN
There isnt a Jesus movie out there that had any profound impact period. Fact is, Ben-Hur was given the tag line "A Story in parallel with HIS life". It was meant to be about Jesus, without actually being ABOUT JESUS. Or so the Director of the film opined. And Ben-Hur is still considered a great film, that people still think about and watch.
Ben-Hur is completely standard by the numbers "Hollywood Epic." It's as important as Titanic.
quote:
Originally posted by JiGGa_MaN
This movie is different from the others, since its only the last 12 hours of his life, which is a part of his life that most filmakers have done a great job avoiding.
Um no it's not, it's just that most filmmakers aren't sadistic gorehounds who (AMAZINGLY) think Jesus's life and teachings are more important than the way he died.
quote:
Originally posted by JiGGa_MaN
The Last Temptation of Christ never had this much fanfare going on around it.
Were you in a cave? There was way more controversy surrounding Last Temptation than there was around Passion. Last Temptation didn't do as well commercially because most of the controversy came from Protestants and other Christians who are a much larger and louder group in America than Jews, no matter how many "OMG JEW CONSPIRACY" bullshit people throw around. And even though it didn't do as well commercially, critically Last Temptation was much more well recieved. As time passes people will look back on Temptation as a profound and important film that examined Jesus and Christianity in interesting and thought-provoking ways, while people will look back on the Passion similar to the way they'll look back on something like Gladiator: A well-made historical film, but nothing earth-shattering that really touches us in a special way, either emotionally or intellectually. And Passion will be lucky to be looked upon that favorably, because if you've been paying attention to the reviews they're very mixed. The facts are this: The Last Temptation of Christ was made by one of the greatest filmmakers of the last fifty years. The Passion of the Christ was directed by Mad Max.
Oh. So now you have to be one of the greatest filmmakers in 50 years in order to make a film with impact.
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:01 pm |
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ghostnuke
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 5668
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quote:
Originally posted by JiGGa_MaN
Oh. So now you have to be one of the greatest filmmakers in 50 years in order to make a film with impact.
Just using that to backup my argument. Do you honestly think Gibson is a better director than Scorcese?
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:57 pm |
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Necrophilic
Joined: 22 Nov 2003
Posts: 400
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Yes:
Best Director: Mel Gibson for Braveheart
No:
Best Director: Martin Scorcese
Definitive proof that Mel Gibson outclasses Scorcese in every way~!
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:51 pm |
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ghostnuke
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 5668
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quote:
Originally posted by Necrophilic
Yes:
Best Director: Mel Gibson for Braveheart
No:
Best Director: Martin Scorcese
Definitive proof that Mel Gibson outclasses Scorcese in every way~!
i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, if you are then that's pretty funny and if you're not it's still pretty funny
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:57 pm |
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JiGGa_MaN
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 10014
Location: Future home of the Stanley cup, Ottawa |
quote:
Originally posted by ghostnuke
quote:
Originally posted by Necrophilic
Yes:
Best Director: Mel Gibson for Braveheart
No:
Best Director: Martin Scorcese
Definitive proof that Mel Gibson outclasses Scorcese in every way~!
i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, if you are then that's pretty funny and if you're not it's still pretty funny
Obviously Gibson is nowhere near the director Scorcese is, my point is, I think this film will have a greater overall impact, just in the timing of it. Only time will tell, so theres really nothing for us to argue about.
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
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Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:50 am |
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~Dakine..HeX
Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 4062
Location: salt lake city |
didn't scorcese do the Godfather? or was that coppola.
either way The Godfather fucking owns your bones for real
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Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:21 am |
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ThePanacea
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 1466
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quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
why do people still care about jesus? I think if God really did have a human son, he might have done a little more good than Jesus or christianity has done.
I disagree. I think that the concepts of christianity make it a good religion and the theory makes some sense. The problems I see are the smaller things that just seem a bit ridiculous (staying away from a woman during her period, etc). It's also hard to believe that people lived only for 5,000 years or that God would plant artifacts to trick us into thinking that people really only lived that long, not to mention that it's pretty odd how Cain and Able were able to populate the Earth fast enough for there to be so many people around that God had to kill them off relatively shortly after.
Last edited by ThePanacea on Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:29 am |
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Necrophilic
Joined: 22 Nov 2003
Posts: 400
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quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
why do people still care about jesus? I think if God really did have a human son, he might have done a little more good than Jesus or christianity has done.
I disagree. I think that the concepts of christianity make it a good religion and the theory makes some sense. The problems I see are the smaller things that just seem a bit ridiculous (staying away from a woman during her period, etc). It's also hard to believe that people lived only for 5,000 years or that God would plant artifacts to trick us into thinking that people really only lived that long, not to mention that it's pretty odd how Cain and Able were able to populate the Earth fast enough for there to be so many people around that God had to kill them off.
Most fiction stories have ridiculous components to them!!
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Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:10 am |
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ThePanacea
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 1466
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quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
I disagree... blah blah blah
All I'm saying is, that if the allmighty, eternal, all knowing creator of the millions of galaxies in this universe singled out Earth and had only one son here, I think he would have at least created a religion that made sense. Obviously Jesus was a cult leading Martyr. Get over it.
I don't like making posts like these, but exactly what doesn't make sense? I do agree some of the small things don't really make much sense, but the general concepts of Christianity, in my opinion, do.
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Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:21 am |
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x
Joined: 31 Oct 2001
Posts: 1634
Location: Athens, GA |
Life of Brian is better than last temptation of christ. :-p
Of course this is the best christian film ever made:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098502/
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Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:15 am |
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ghostnuke
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 5668
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quote:
Originally posted by x
Life of Brian is better than last temptation of christ. :-p
Of course this is the best christian film ever made:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098502/
i'm not sure i'd go that far but its certainly better than passion
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Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:08 am |
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JiGGa_MaN
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 10014
Location: Future home of the Stanley cup, Ottawa |
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
I disagree... blah blah blah
All I'm saying is, that if the allmighty, eternal, all knowing creator of the millions of galaxies in this universe singled out Earth and had only one son here, I think he would have at least created a religion that made sense. Obviously Jesus was a cult leading Martyr. Get over it.
I don't like making posts like these, but exactly what doesn't make sense? I do agree some of the small things don't really make much sense, but the general concepts of Christianity, in my opinion, do.
WHat dosnt make sense? How about all of it. Perhaps the million physically impossible "events" that unfolded. Or maybe the fact that so many have died to preserve and spread Christianity in the name of Jesus. I dunno, maybe thats just me.
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
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Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:03 pm |
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ThePanacea
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 1466
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I think that the main concepts make sense. By main concepts I mean ...
God creating a universe because he wanted to have something to love as that is good
God having a heaven and allowing for a hell (I agree with what Ash said in his paper, though)
People being able to make sacrafices for their sins originally
Jesus coming to take away sins after suffering the same way a human would and leading a perfect life*
God not forcing people to be good, nor forcing people to believe in him, but allowing for it, and should people choose to accept Jesus as their sacrafice then him allowing them into heaven
I think it makes for a pretty good religion, though of course the bible contradicts everything it says somewhere or another ..
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Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:03 pm |
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JiGGa_MaN
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 10014
Location: Future home of the Stanley cup, Ottawa |
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
I think that the main concepts make sense. By main concepts I mean ...
God creating a universe because he wanted to have something to love as that is good
God having a heaven and allowing for a hell (I agree with what Ash said in his paper, though)
People being able to make sacrafices for their sins originally
Jesus coming to take away sins after suffering the same way a human would and leading a perfect life*
God not forcing people to be good, nor forcing people to believe in him, but allowing for it, and should people choose to accept Jesus as their sacrafice then him allowing them into heaven
I think it makes for a pretty good religion, though of course the bible contradicts everything it says somewhere or another ..
To me, this is where the trouble starts. If God said "Follow the basic principles of being a good person, and I will allow you into Heaven." Then I can understand.... but wait! Theres more! If you dont BELIEVE in God, you dont get into heaven! Thats right kids! No matter how wonderful a person you were in life, if you dont believe in God, you goto Hell.
Explain to me how thats even remotely fair. Or how about Sex before marriage = Hell. Thats another Gem.
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
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Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:36 pm |
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x
Joined: 31 Oct 2001
Posts: 1634
Location: Athens, GA |
"...oh just about everything is a sin, have you ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not allowed to go to the bathroom."
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Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:23 pm |
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ThePanacea
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 1466
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Well, I am writing this, as someone who is agnostic, but ..
I don't think it is at all unreasonable for a divine being to say that different people will come from different backgrounds and have different situations and genes. He also understands that every person is going to make sins. Prior to Jesus, if my understanding is correct, people made a sacrafice for all sins and "sinless" (post-sacrafice) individuals could go into one of the better heavens (like the 7th one). After Jesus, of course, all sins were cured. Thus, as long as you accept Jesus as your savior you can be forgiven and go to heaven. If you are a very good person and you accept him wholeheartedly or if you have made many mistakes, you can get into heaven.
Christianity also is supposed to encourage doing good because you love God and want to please him and you want to do good and such. This can be a good bit more fulfilling, in my opinion, than doing good solely because if you do not then you're going to be damned.
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Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:37 pm |
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JiGGa_MaN
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 10014
Location: Future home of the Stanley cup, Ottawa |
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
Well, I am writing this, as someone who is agnostic, but ..
I don't think it is at all unreasonable for a divine being to say that different people will come from different backgrounds and have different situations and genes. He also understands that every person is going to make sins. Prior to Jesus, if my understanding is correct, people made a sacrafice for all sins and "sinless" (post-sacrafice) individuals could go into one of the better heavens (like the 7th one). After Jesus, of course, all sins were cured. Thus, as long as you accept Jesus as your savior you can be forgiven and go to heaven. If you are a very good person and you accept him wholeheartedly or if you have made many mistakes, you can get into heaven.
Christianity also is supposed to encourage doing good because you love God and want to please him and you want to do good and such. This can be a good bit more fulfilling, in my opinion, than doing good solely because if you do not then you're going to be damned.
Umm hello? The whole reason people hate this ideology is that even people who have led good lives, with no expectation of repayment, are sent up the river styx simply because they do not easily accept things they cannot see. If you were doing "Good" solely to BE good, there would be no need to threaten banishment in hell. Nor would it be necessary to promise an afterlife in heaven. Therefore, God is asking you to be good or pay for it. This hardly inspires people to be good just for the sake of it.
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
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Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:20 pm |
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ThePanacea
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 1466
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If you live a sinless life, according to Christianity, you go to heaven whether you believe in God or not. However, God does not force you to go to heaven without your consent. Thus, if you don't ask for your sins to be forgiven or for him to allow you into heaven, then he won't as it would take away free will.
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Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:54 pm |
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x
Joined: 31 Oct 2001
Posts: 1634
Location: Athens, GA |
I wish to register a complaint
I wish to complain about the post I am going to make half an hour from now. It is inflammatory and totally uncalled for.
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Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:38 pm |
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JiGGa_MaN
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 10014
Location: Future home of the Stanley cup, Ottawa |
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
If you live a sinless life, according to Christianity, you go to heaven whether you believe in God or not. However, God does not force you to go to heaven without your consent. Thus, if you don't ask for your sins to be forgiven or for him to allow you into heaven, then he won't as it would take away free will.
According to God, most of the things we do everyday are sins. Being born is sin. Not giving the less fortunate your material possessions is a sin. Sex before marriage, etc. ad infinitum.
Meanwhile, I should point out that faith in god is like the number 1 thing he desires of his sheep. Saying he dosnt care if you believe or not goes against many of the things he has said.
And remind me again, when God asked Abraham to kill his only son, was God allowing Abe's son to exercise free will? I think not.
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
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Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:51 pm |
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ThePanacea
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 1466
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"Being born is sin."
I may very well shoot myself in the foot for this (or head, not related), but where in the scripture does it say this?
"Not giving the less fortunate your material possessions is a sin."
I think God says he wants people to be willing to live without a love for money. Many philosophers also believe this is can very much help a person's sanity and improve the quality of life. While I don't completely agree, I do very well understand the reason for this.
"Sex before marriage, etc. ad infinitum."
This is hard from your perspective, obviously, and mine as well, but I wasn't "raised" atheist. The best explanation I can give (Ender-Wiggin may have a better one, if he's around) is that it's supposed to be reserved for marriage so that the child reproduced was going to be cared for. As far as I know, they didn't have birth control back B.C. I may be mistaken.
Still, there are going to be some sins in the Bible that look a bit ridiculous. I'm not going to be able to argue all of them and I doubt that there are decent arguments for any of them, however my point was that the general idea of Christianity isn't "that" bad, in my opinion.
"Meanwhile, I should point out that faith in god is like the number 1 thing he desires of his sheep. Saying he dosnt care if you believe or not goes against many of the things he has said."
As far as I know, unless you deny his existence after being fully explained it, then you won't be going to hell, as you never had a chance to make a choice. If you're an infant that dies early perhaps you're reincarnated or something. I doubt it says it in the Bible and so it's all speculation.
"And remind me again, when God asked Abraham to kill his only son, was God allowing Abe's son to exercise free will? I think not."
Well, first off, as is commonly answered by Christians, violence is going to exist as is evil, etc. If it didn't we would have no free will. Next, obviously something like an infant is hardly going to have any choices (thus, see above) ..
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Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:09 pm |
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Scrubbolator
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 1303
Location: Greece |
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
"Being born is sin."
I may very well shoot myself in the foot for this (or head, not related), but where in the scripture does it say this?
according to the bible that's true. i don't remember where it says it. but supposedly when you are born a human you carry the original sin of adam and eve etc and that is why you have to be baptised
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
Meanwhile, I should point out that faith in god is like the number 1 thing he desires of his sheep. Saying he dosnt care if you believe or not goes against many of the things he has said."
As far as I know, unless you deny his existence after being fully explained it, then you won't be going to hell, as you never had a chance to make a choice. If you're an infant that dies early perhaps you're reincarnated or something. I doubt it says it in the Bible and so it's all speculation.
in that case, the infant goes to hell or purgatory, don't remember which
christianity is ridiculous
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Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:13 am |
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ThePanacea
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 1466
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I'd be interested in seeing where it says that you are born with sin and thus need to be baptised.
By "you might be reincarnated or something" I meant that the Bible (as far as I know) doesn't explain what happens when you die before ever having a chance to accept/deny Jesus as your savior and ask to go into heaven. It would be reasonable to be reincarnated or something like that, of course.
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Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:41 pm |
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JiGGa_MaN
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 10014
Location: Future home of the Stanley cup, Ottawa |
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
I'd be interested in seeing where it says that you are born with sin and thus need to be baptised.
By "you might be reincarnated or something" I meant that the Bible (as far as I know) doesn't explain what happens when you die before ever having a chance to accept/deny Jesus as your savior and ask to go into heaven. It would be reasonable to be reincarnated or something like that, of course.
I dont rightly recall where it says Birth is Sin, but I've heard it many times. It has something to do with original sin of eating the apple from the "tree of knowledge". Basicly you are born with the sin of being Sentient life, and must be baptised into Christianity.
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
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Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:43 pm |
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ThePanacea
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 1466
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quote:
Originally posted by JiGGa_MaN
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
I'd be interested in seeing where it says that you are born with sin and thus need to be baptised.
By "you might be reincarnated or something" I meant that the Bible (as far as I know) doesn't explain what happens when you die before ever having a chance to accept/deny Jesus as your savior and ask to go into heaven. It would be reasonable to be reincarnated or something like that, of course.
I dont rightly recall where it says Birth is Sin, but I've heard it many times. It has something to do with original sin of eating the apple from the "tree of knowledge". Basicly you are born with the sin of being Sentient life, and must be baptised into Christianity.
This may be true, but I don't recall it being in the Bible and I would guess it's one of those catholic things. I know Sabiq said a few times that Jews try to dissuade others from becoming Jewish because if they understand and learn to accept the religion then they must follow it and not sin, etc. When they have no knowledge of it, however, they aren't obligated to follow the "rules".
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Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:58 pm |
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JiGGa_MaN
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 10014
Location: Future home of the Stanley cup, Ottawa |
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
quote:
Originally posted by JiGGa_MaN
quote:
Originally posted by ThePanacea
I'd be interested in seeing where it says that you are born with sin and thus need to be baptised.
By "you might be reincarnated or something" I meant that the Bible (as far as I know) doesn't explain what happens when you die before ever having a chance to accept/deny Jesus as your savior and ask to go into heaven. It would be reasonable to be reincarnated or something like that, of course.
I dont rightly recall where it says Birth is Sin, but I've heard it many times. It has something to do with original sin of eating the apple from the "tree of knowledge". Basicly you are born with the sin of being Sentient life, and must be baptised into Christianity.
This may be true, but I don't recall it being in the Bible and I would guess it's one of those catholic things. I know Sabiq said a few times that Jews try to dissuade others from becoming Jewish because if they understand and learn to accept the religion then they must follow it and not sin, etc. When they have no knowledge of it, however, they aren't obligated to follow the "rules".
Thats very true, alot of religions have windfalls for sinners who dont know any better. If a Jew breaks Catholic dogma it isnt considered a sin. Whereas the same actions from a Catholic would.
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
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Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:25 pm |
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