i played a ladder game yesterday vs a pretty good guy on foc / high.
he went ships then lusting and dks.
i went out-expanding.i got 4 damn mines when hes main mine crashed.i thought i was gonna own him even with dagons.but they suck so bad ,he built a couple of dks and each rape atleast 3 dragons easily.coz they react so slow on command when they ex get decayed..then i went ogres lvl4 but they didnt do a shit coz he had lust and i tried to decay his main,besides that i decayed his exp very often but he still had enough gold for dks for my stupid drags.i told him when i had no gold left and no units that i lost and he agreed when i said i had won if i went dks +lusted ogres.when stats came up i mined 120k gold ,he only mined 60k.dragons should cost 1500 gold if they in some way is gonna be adequate to the damage they can cause enemy.otherwise,warcraft would be more like starcraft if it was like that,and i dont like starcraft heh..

do never build dragons except in specific cases.but dont try to kill him with them,just defend ure own ass.

you're just figuring this out now? =(

nope,i always knew they sucked,but not that bad ;(

a drag or two can be a real pain in the ass... but on sea maps an experienced player will be prepared for them. 1 drag on a map like gow can for a player to maybe build a dk or axer which might mean him not building a couple orges... so as soon as u send the drag... send your lusted ogres like 20 sec later to have the advantage

But how's it an advantage when it costs 2500 to build a dragon and another 1000 for the roost? He builds 1 dker or two axers and lusts them up, which costs 1200, and 1000 respectively. So it's nto really an advatange at all, except for him maybe. The real advantage of a dragon, if you wanna bother with it. Is if its a massively huge late game, and everyones playing defensive get like 3 dragons and send them to mines he has walled so he has to either A: spend time moving dkers there or B: Build gts at the mine. What this does is, the time he spends dicking around getting his dkers there you can hit him somewhere else making him have to do a million things at once.
But I prefer grifs over dragons anyways, cuz you can heal them. Sounds dumb, but I'd rather have them healable then lustable. Even though most times I don't get heal anyways, although I should more often =/


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-Kith-Kanin-

some people can do really well with dragons, but they die so easily. If you know your enemy doesnt make dks or mages then go for it, otherwise spend your money on something more useful. Ive gone a few weeks at a time using dragons, if the enemy is unexperianced, it will work everytime, but if he knows his stuff, he will own the dragons in a short time. I quit using them, because they lost me a lot of games, but sometimes it really throws them off, and you can get all his peons. I say, if you attack with dragons, make sure its 3+ attacking, so damage can be done to peons faster then he can counter it. I like to attack with at least 5, which means 3-5 roosts= lot o $$

on gow classic random order, the comps do pretty decent with drags - if they are 12 and 2 (liek they usually are) they'll run you over wit draggies. intrestingly, 7 comps on pos isnt so hard...

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- SaBiQ

kith... you are right... i didn't mean for the advantage to be in terms on money, i simply meant that they time it takes the enemy simply to DEAL with the dragon, can lead u an advantage if u attack while he is busy with that.. u might catch him unlusted... etc, thanks for the good point though :P

If you are going dragons on sea...which is usually a bit rough...you should never send them without both lust and haste...or you will basically be wasting taking your gold and throwing it in the garbage as you learned...If you were that far ahead all you needed to do is get a couple dragons to control a part of the sea and upgrade on your islands going defense. After you have lust and mass ogres the dragons help on sea and to irritate, then just run him over on land.

I have never in my life witnessed a good dragon rusher beat another good player.One notable game was when Agent DRushed on Maze vs Pimster.But no matter how well they're used they always seem to lose,whether it's lack of expanding,or whatever.Axo vs Incin was another good example of Drags getting raped.Drags need a faster build time,so that maybe they could be faster to get than lust.
--reaverlisk

besides that ,dragons doesnt react att all when u blizz them as other units do.and they are as slow as a catapult to take the order:when u move them.thats why 1dk so easily can rape 4 drags.besides that the damage they do is LESS than a knight level 5!dragons are never worth to build even on sea puds or to "iritate" all u need is some dks,which u should build even if he doesnt dragon rush.

Only way I can see dragons being better is if they were immune to magic..

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Reikan

the majority of gow players play orc. thats a fact. the majority of decent players dont think about dragons. period. when your rushing, you totally outrush him, then you outlust him and your wasting his raxes and 2 dragons pop out of nowhere on your line, your probably thinking "WTF". the precious time it takes you to sayyy...build axers if you dont have a temple and at least 1 dk, which a lot of players wont..so the person is going to be building axers, or guard towers, and meanwhile your dragons are just running around your base chasing peons and making the poor guys lives miserable. dragons are the best annoyance or distraction when you really need one. most players dont have the time to build roosts for a drag or two, but they really come in handy vs a decent player. really exceptional players like buzzbomb, stalin and archangel will have dk, or mages, depending on the race. it probably comes natural for them. but the majority of 24-7 channel wont expect such a pain in the ass. ~=[

Dragons are extremely nice imho. Alot of times if you are very large in an end game, you have massive surplus money even with a huge ogre pump. Dragons are not bad units on the attack at all, and worth 2500 if used properly. The idea is not to send them into a guys base. Rather you send them, lusted (like 1 or 2) immediately before sending your ogres in. This makes the enemies ogres move around making them harder to lust. Also, drags are decent damage... and if you have your drags in there just before your lusted ogres they are probably fairly safe from being killed immediately...If the player chooses to micro a dk to kill them he will not be lusted. If he lusts instead you get free hits from a 24 + lust damage attack that splashes all over. It can work very well indeed.

I disagree, dragons are very good when used correctly. I love to dragon rush on spiral/low, nobody ever expects it. It's funny when they call you a "newbie" and say things like "omfg I can't believe I lost to a dragon rush."

orkin, can u explain the dragon rush strategy? is it straight dragons, a dual dragon rush, 2 guard towers, 3, what?

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I played a 3v3 yesterday. I was 4, my ally 5, and my other ally at s9. My oponents were 2, 12, and 11. Sounds like we're fucked huh?
11 duals to 9, and s9 takes 9 out with cats but does shit to 11. I make a cannon for my ally at 5, and he rushes hard. I make a cat at 4 and go straight for dragons. When i was fort it seemed everyone else was still hall, or just holding. My first 2 dragons killed the ot on my ally at 5. I then went to 12 and killed many peons, his mound and mill, and made both 2 and 12 make about 9 axers each. After they had all the axers, i had 12 dragons and i went to 11 and took out the dualers fort, and my ally at s9 finished him. My ally at 5 had many lusties, and along with my dragons completely devestated the pathetic 2/12 axer/ogre army. The game wasnt even close, and i lost maybe 4 dragons out of 20 from one mine powering. I had 3 only roosts, but pumped them all nonstop. We werent playing newbies Either. LoThaR.. was at 12, Vice was at 2, and RedruM was dualing 11/9.
Probably the easiest 3v3 i have played in a long time.

I can understand what you are saying Genocider....i mean i hate drags myself. They are just so annoying and yes i do get dk's but when someone goes all out drags it hard to stop cause they always hit the dk then the dk temple and then the]
mill/tower(s). But if you use like drags for def and shit like that i guess its coo but besides all that i hate drags period.

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J[i]nx

ORKin i never said to anyone that they are newbs for using the dragon rush... not saying you are talking to me but if u got a good dragon rush then thats good but i still don't think they are all that great. And yes i've lost to a good dragon rush many times.

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J[i]nx

I was playing against axolotl a few nights ago (ffa on rose petal, which i never recommend doing because they're way too much gold and it lasts way too long)

anyways, at one point i started hitting his wallins with ogres and getting owned by those damn decaying DKs... but i had 2 dragons. I lusted them, hasted them, and sent them straight at DKs that i had scouted out.

2 lusted, hasted dragons can kill a DK with one hit.

I did this alot, to the point where he was WATCHING for these dragons.. each time i could kill 2 or 3 of his DKs before i saw him react (in the form of dks running towards my dragons)

At that point i'd run them away...

In all... 2 dragons with haste and lust on them can kill a few dks before they can react. If you're afraid that someone is REALLY watching for those dragons, you can still kill at least 1 dk before you dragons get hurt, which means you can get them out without a scratch.

You only have to kill 5 DKs with those dragons to make it worth your effort, and if you combine killing said DKs with ogres running a wallin over, you've just earned their money's worth.

Summary: a few dragons can win a game (not that ffa though, we got so sick of it after an hour or so that we went back to kali)

btw... shut up kith, in advance :P

anyone ever played someone who is good with dragons, and was unprepared for the attack, how do you deal with that?

Blood lusted throwers work prety well.

Sorry to say Kith. But any person that would take a healable gryphon over a dragon that can be both hasted and lusted.. is pretty out of their mind =/

A hasted/lusted dragon can take out 3 gryphons 1v1 or 2 at a time from what I recall.

Not to mention you can add unholy armor to get in some heavily defended places if even to put dragons in their peon line so he has no choice but to dk the dragons and the peon line with it.

Ok, drags blow, period. especially at see, aKa Destroyers@Rapedrgs@allthelivelongday.cum