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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
If people don't like elder scrolls for whatever reason then fine - i'm just saying that I've played a lot of MMOs over the years and this one really stands out from the sea of games that feel like the exact same game in a different skin.
Honestly though if you've enjoyed the elder scrolls series in the past and you play video games as a hobby i'm kinda dumbfounded by why you wouldn't want to at least try this game.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:03 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Honestly though if you've enjoyed the elder scrolls series in the past and you play video games as a hobby i'm kinda dumbfounded by why you wouldn't want to at least try this game.
what if you enjoyed the elder scrolls in the past but haven't enjoyed it for years since when bethesda made the game retarded to appeal to console babbies?
anyway i'm not interested in trying it because i've heard bad things, oblivion and skyrim (and fallout 3) were stinkers, and i don't think my time is worthless
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:07 pm |
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Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
quote:
Originally posted by Aerasal
turtleman, you do realize wow is the only mmo that's been able to maintain a subscription model? it's very unlikely wildstar and teso will remain subscription based, especially considering a lot of the mediocre reception they've been getting.
Actually there are a lot of MMOs that are subscription based:
FFXI, FFXIV, Darkfall, etc - and a ton of others that have a hybrid subscription/cash shop model
A lot of 'F2P' MMOs are subscription based but they've just realized that opening up a very robust free-trial is a better method of attracting new customers.
WoW is a cash cow but you don't need millions of subscribers to run an MMO. I'm actually amazed at what little content WoW produces and still actively maintains the # of players they do. I was playing age of conan for quite some time and that's mostly subscription based with maybe 75k active subscribers and yet it probably releases more content than WoW and they've got a skeleton crew of developers on that team.
Darkfall is a pvp-based First person MMO with probably 5k subscribers yet still runs, gets regular updates and charges a box fee + premium monthly fee.
So Wildstar and TESO may end up going F2P down the road but that isn't some "APPLE SOLD 5 MILLION MORE PHONES THAN ANDROID" or "HULK HOGAN SMASHED THE ULTIMATE WARRIORS FACE" retard argument.
darkfall looks like it's well on its way to being dead, and you have no idea if and how profitable the game even is. this is with the new revamped version having JUST released that really looks like that company's last chance (and it's failing miserably). ff14 was also just released. oh yeah and ff 14 was just revamped and re released too. there's a reason I said
maintain,
because that's exactly what I meant. there are zero mmo's that have maintained a subscription model...besides wow.
also, it really doesn't matter if a ftp game is "subscription based"... if it doesn't require a subscription. hell, I'd come out with a piece of shit game and have people pay me subscriptions if I could get people to do that.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:30 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Aerasal
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
quote:
Originally posted by Aerasal
turtleman, you do realize wow is the only mmo that's been able to maintain a subscription model? it's very unlikely wildstar and teso will remain subscription based, especially considering a lot of the mediocre reception they've been getting.
Actually there are a lot of MMOs that are subscription based:
FFXI, FFXIV, Darkfall, etc - and a ton of others that have a hybrid subscription/cash shop model
A lot of 'F2P' MMOs are subscription based but they've just realized that opening up a very robust free-trial is a better method of attracting new customers.
WoW is a cash cow but you don't need millions of subscribers to run an MMO. I'm actually amazed at what little content WoW produces and still actively maintains the # of players they do. I was playing age of conan for quite some time and that's mostly subscription based with maybe 75k active subscribers and yet it probably releases more content than WoW and they've got a skeleton crew of developers on that team.
Darkfall is a pvp-based First person MMO with probably 5k subscribers yet still runs, gets regular updates and charges a box fee + premium monthly fee.
So Wildstar and TESO may end up going F2P down the road but that isn't some "APPLE SOLD 5 MILLION MORE PHONES THAN ANDROID" or "HULK HOGAN SMASHED THE ULTIMATE WARRIORS FACE" retard argument.
darkfall looks like it's well on its way to being dead, and you have no idea if and how profitable the game even is. this is with the new revamped version having JUST released that really looks like that company's last chance (and it's failing miserably). ff14 was also just released. oh yeah and ff 14 was just revamped and re released too. there's a reason I said
maintain,
because that's exactly what I meant. there are zero mmo's that have maintained a subscription model...besides wow.
also, it really doesn't matter if a ftp game is "subscription based"... if it doesn't require a subscription. hell, I'd come out with a piece of shit game and have people pay me subscriptions if I could get people to do that.
FFXI has maintained a subscription model, so has dark age of camelot and anarchy online just off the top of my head. And FFXIV maintained a sub model for nearly 2 years before going offline for 6 months and re-establishing a subscription model.
And most MMOs require a subscription to play seriously (like age of conan, everquest, etc) so for a lot of these games, they aren't really F2P - there are actually very few F2P MMOs that solely rely on cash shops. Being 'F2P' isn't some bad term to describe a failed product. If ESO goes F2P, they probably just figured they'll make more money that way.. Sell a few million copies, then a few years later when the game starts losing a lot of it's business, re-launch it with much higher accessibility.
As far as darkfall, yeah maybe somebody is losing money on that deal..but it's been around for quite a few years now though so I doubt it. People lose sight of the value of money when they're talking about these games. Like, if a game has 5k subs @ 15/month.. Well that's close to a million dollars a year.. Surprisingly, you don't need to earn that much money to run a small game studio and I'm sure that if you managed that properly, you'd be pulling in a lot more money in a year than the average working man. Like I said it's kinda retarded to get into this whole "WOW HAS 10 MILLION SUBS, IF YOU AREN'T DOING NEARLY THAT MUCH YOU FUCKING SUCK AND YOUR GAME IS DEAD" It's completely unrealistic and stupid.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:40 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
FFXI has maintained a subscription model, so has dark age of camelot and anarchy online just off the top of my head.
these games are over half a fucking decade old dude, what the hell
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
If ESO goes F2P, they probably just figured they'll make more money that way.. Sell a few million copies, then a few years later when the game starts losing a lot of it's business, re-launch it with much higher accessibility.
lol. yeah dude video games and especially mmo's are never unprofitable, if they look that way, its just their way of making even MORE money! those geniuses in the video game industry, what will they think of next
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
As far as darkfall, yeah maybe somebody is losing money on that deal..but it's been around for quite a few years now though so I doubt it. People lose sight of the value of money when they're talking about these games. Like, if a game has 5k subs @ 15/month.. Well that's close to a million dollars a year.. Surprisingly, you don't need to earn that much money to run a small game studio and I'm sure that if you managed that properly, you'd be pulling in a lot more money in a year than the average working man. Like I said it's kinda retarded to get into this whole "WOW HAS 10 MILLION SUBS, IF YOU AREN'T DOING NEARLY THAT MUCH YOU FUCKING SUCK AND YOUR GAME IS DEAD" It's completely unrealistic and stupid.
good point, i forgot servers and server maintenance were free
also like...do you really think some company can fund a decent, stable MMO on a million a year? seriously? even like 2 or 3 million? mmo's being an ongoing thing makes them more expensive than most other games right off the bat (though not as expensive as the subscription game publishers would have you believe). then you have to buy the various materials, software and hardware, to actually make the games. then you have to pay your programmers, designers, artists, QA testers (you can skip this step if you're bethesda lol) etc. once you get a dozen half decently skilled people on your payroll (programmers, artists, etc - not even counting in things like administrative staff) that's almost your entire $1mil a year just on salaries. talk about not knowing the value of money. the only way a "small game studio" could maintain a half decent MMO is with the resources of a big publisher or independently wealthy nerd mogul
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:39 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
Who cares how old those games are. He's saying WoW (Which is also old) is the only subscription based game when it's clearly not
And anything can be unprofitable - it depends how you run a business. I'm just saying that there's room for the old family-run grill shack next to McDonalds and just because it's not McDonalds doesn't mean it sucks and it's a failure - which for some reason stupid people seem to adopt as a thought process when talking about video games because they think it's an all or nothing popularity contest without any semblance of thought.
And you describing business costs of an MMO - good job showing how little you understand. I could go out and rent a 4 bedroom house, hire 10 people, get a business level internet connection and set up our own servers to host an MMO like darkfall for less than half a million/year right now. Or I could rent a high-rise office space in NY city, pay every idiot that thinks he has anything to do with any security/service/insurance/etc that i'd need - pay inflated salaries to lots of people with little responsibilities and pay out the ass for servers in some high security data center or somewhere in between.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:30 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Who cares how old those games are. He's saying WoW (Which is also old) is the only subscription based game when it's clearly not
1) it matters because he says its the only one that's been sustainable into recent years and hes right
2) the market is different from when everquest was a thing, so you can't predict teso's success based on their success at all
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
And anything can be unprofitable - it depends how you run a business. I'm just saying that there's room for the old family-run grill shack next to McDonalds and just because it's not McDonalds doesn't mean it sucks and it's a failure - which for some reason stupid people seem to adopt as a thought process when talking about video games because they think it's an all or nothing popularity contest without any semblance of thought.
who are all these people you're always talking to or describing that don't have any resemblance to anyone actually posting in the thread
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
And you describing business costs of an MMO - good job showing how little you understand. I could go out and rent a 4 bedroom house, hire 10 people, get a business level internet connection and set up our own servers to host an MMO like darkfall for less than half a million/year right now. Or I could rent a high-rise office space in NY city, pay every idiot that thinks he has anything to do with any security/service/insurance/etc that i'd need - pay inflated salaries to lots of people with little responsibilities and pay out the ass for servers in some high security data center or somewhere in between.
make it happen then genius
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:25 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
And you describing business costs of an MMO - good job showing how little you understand. I could go out and rent a 4 bedroom house, hire 10 people, get a business level internet connection and set up our own servers to host an MMO like darkfall for less than half a million/year right now. Or I could rent a high-rise office space in NY city, pay every idiot that thinks he has anything to do with any security/service/insurance/etc that i'd need - pay inflated salaries to lots of people with little responsibilities and pay out the ass for servers in some high security data center or somewhere in between.
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:26 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
1) it matters because he says its the only one that's been sustainable into recent years and hes right
But I just gave 4 other examples off the top of my head that are sustainable into recent years
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
2) the market is different from when everquest was a thing, so you can't predict teso's success based on their success at all
Yeah but who's predicting it's success based on the success of everquest? The idea of a premium membership fee vs microtransactions as some gauge of success is wrong. Every MMO has a different way of making money. Even WoW has a store and sells micro transactions. I don't agree that having a premium membership is a bad plan - a lot of people actually prefer it so they know what they are spending vs microtransactions which could end up costing them more than they wanted to budget in any given month.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:42 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
who are all these people you're always talking to or describing that don't have any resemblance to anyone actually posting in the thread
It's just a common mindset - like kids having console wars talking shit about sony and xbox like they're sports teams, talking about sales and all of this other shit cheering on the one they own like armchair CEOs. I got a sense that Aerasal was coming from this perspective as soon as he typed something.
Also I am working on an MMO side Project right now, part of the reason I know so much about this shit.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:47 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
But I just gave 4 other examples off the top of my head that are sustainable into recent years
2003-2008 is not recent years
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Yeah but who's predicting it's success based on the success of everquest? The idea of a premium membership fee vs microtransactions as some gauge of success is wrong. Every MMO has a different way of making money. Even WoW has a store and sells micro transactions. I don't agree that having a premium membership is a bad plan - a lot of people actually prefer it so they know what they are spending vs microtransactions which could end up costing them more than they wanted to budget in any given month.
there's nothing inherently wrong with it if the content is worth it but by most indications teso doesnt bring anything particularly exciting to the table
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
It's just a common mindset - like kids having console wars talking shit about sony and xbox like they're sports teams, talking about sales and all of this other shit cheering on the one they own like armchair CEOs. I got a sense that Aerasal was coming from this perspective as soon as he typed something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Also I am working on an MMO side Project right now, part of the reason I know so much about this shit.
Ah.
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:15 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
some of those games i mentioned are all running today on subscriptions - they were released near the same time as wow, maintained subscriptions up until now. The only difference is they aren't as popular as WoW so I don't understand why you keep saying the sky is orange
as far as teso it's too early to say if it's worth a subscription for me but it's also too early to say it isnt and i'm curious what indicators you're seeing... I mean no news is good news. usually when a game of this magnitude launches people are biting at the bit to trash it - yet there isn't any widespread backlash going on against it.
as far as projecting - i think maybe u should go read that link because it's not really describing what i am doing by supposing somebody is a sheep-minded idiot when they have already shown signs of being of that mindset.
and yeah I have been researching and cataloging payment models of over 100 MMO games so when someone comes in here saying that WoW is the only sub game and then arguing about it after giving them multiple examples off the top of my head i kinda just have to facepalm.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:25 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
some of those games i mentioned are all running today on subscriptions - they were released near the same time as wow, maintained subscriptions up until now. The only difference is they aren't as popular as WoW so I don't understand why you keep saying the sky is orange
you cited dark age of camelot and anarchy online and age of conan
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
and yeah I have been researching and cataloging payment models of over 100 MMO games
thats cool dude
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:27 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
some of those games i mentioned are all running today on subscriptions - they were released near the same time as wow, maintained subscriptions up until now. The only difference is they aren't as popular as WoW so I don't understand why you keep saying the sky is orange
you cited dark age of camelot and anarchy online and age of conan
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
and yeah I have been researching and cataloging payment models of over 100 MMO games
thats cool dude
So what are you saying
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:34 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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i'm saying i'm looking forward to your epic mmorpg that's going to totally be good and come out and is a real thing that exists in the world
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:39 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
It's not an MMO - I can show it to you if you want to see it
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:40 pm |
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Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
who are all these people you're always talking to or describing that don't have any resemblance to anyone actually posting in the thread
It's just a common mindset - like kids having console wars talking shit about sony and xbox like they're sports teams, talking about sales and all of this other shit cheering on the one they own like armchair CEOs. I got a sense that Aerasal was coming from this perspective as soon as he typed something.
Also I am working on an MMO side Project right now, part of the reason I know so much about this shit.
what the fuck are you even talking about? I disagreed that a cookie cutter game is going to be "massively successful" while providing an observation, and I'm some brand loyal armchair CEO? You're really projecting there.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:37 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
well you're saying that it's a cookie cutter game and that it's going F2P (because it sucks) - that's your observation, and you aren't an idiot. /facepalm
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:07 pm |
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Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
well you're saying that it's a cookie cutter game and that it's going F2P (because it sucks) - that's your observation, and you aren't an idiot. /facepalm
I actually didn't say any of that at all besides it's a cookie cutter game. I guess you'd realize that if not for being a full on idiot. I said it's unlikely to stay sub based based on the market and that it's a mediocre game. that doesn't make me a brand loyal arm chair ceo like you. if anything, it's the people like you the eat up whatever shit they're spoon fed that might keep the game afloat for a while. I'd play the game if I liked it and thought it was worth the price. I didn't hate it but I certainly didn't think it was worth 60 and a sub fee. if it was a one time purchase like gw2, I might have picked it up just for the pvp.
besides listing 14 year old games that no one plays and newly released games, no game has
maintained
the subscription fee. you're the retard here who thinks teso and wildstar, both offering nothing new, are suddenly going to change that. of course since no one can absolutely predict the future the game could be wildly successful and stay sub based forever. but since the game from what I've seen has received a lot of mediocre feedback, there's not a lot of reason to believe it's going to break that mold.
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Yeah but who's predicting it's success based on the success of everquest? The idea of a premium membership fee vs microtransactions as some gauge of success is wrong. Every MMO has a different way of making money. Even WoW has a store and sells micro transactions. I don't agree that having a premium membership is a bad plan - a lot of people actually prefer it so they know what they are spending vs microtransactions which could end up costing them more than they wanted to budget in any given month.
no one said a game is simply a failure just because it's ftp. obviously ftp games are making money. in teso's case, the studio spent massive amounts of money on it it needs to recoup. a game is still going to draw in more money per person playing with sub fees vs other models.
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Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:47 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
"I didn't say any of that!" *repeats the same thing*
Anyway I can appreciate that you didn't like the game but saying it's a 'cookie cutter' game is insulting to the amount of work that went into the game and misleading to anyone interested in it.
Also I was right about you - everything you're going off about now I've already beaten the shit out of , go read my previous posts. I'm not arguing that TESO and wildstar are "BRINGIN THE SUB BACK!" like the rebirth of jesus or conversing about this in a way akin to 2 idiots talking about if superman could beat batman in a fight.
I've already mentioned numerous games that MAINTAIN a sub fee. Some old, some new. What is the sweet spot example that I can use that MAINTAINS a sub fee that would satisfy your definition? Does it have to be a game that launched in the same year as WoW? I am confused by your stupidity.
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Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:31 am |
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Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
"I didn't say any of that!" *repeats the same thing*
I didn't repeat the same thing. you may not think so, but saying "this game blows and is going ftp immediately" is not the same as saying "the game offers nothing new and will likely go ftp eventually like every other single mmo but wow." I said the latter btw.
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Also I was right about you - everything you're going off about now I've already beaten the shit out of , go read my previous posts. I'm not arguing that TESO and wildstar are "BRINGIN THE SUB BACK!" like the rebirth of jesus or conversing about this in a way akin to 2 idiots talking about if superman could beat batman in a fight.
you were arguing at the beginning of the thread that the game is going to be a massive success and that it won't go ftp any time soon. I didn't say you said they're "BRINGIN THE SUB BACK" like the rebirth of Jesus or conversing about this in a way akin to 2 idiots talking about if superman could beat batman in a fight. superman beats batman since he has super powers btw... unless batman has kryptonite. then he wins. pretty boring matchup.
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
I've already mentioned numerous games that MAINTAIN a sub fee. Some old, some new. What is the sweet spot example that I can use that MAINTAINS a sub fee that would satisfy your definition? Does it have to be a game that launched in the same year as WoW? I am confused by your stupidity.
no, it doesn't have to be released the same time as wow. you've ONLY listed very old and very new. if you could think a little you'd understand why games having just been released in the last 6 months, and games well over a decade old that no one plays don't really count. Tera, the secret wars, TOR, aion, rift... everything has gone ftp... or simply been released ftp.
oh right, but you listed dark age of camelot... oh and darkfall! 10 people play and pay for daoc to keep the servers going because they're attached to the game. and do you really think darkfall is going to stick around with it's sub fee? almost no one already plays it. it's likely going to change it's model or just die in the not too distant future.
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Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:26 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Anyway I can appreciate that you didn't like the game but saying it's a 'cookie cutter' game is insulting to the amount of work that went into the game and misleading to anyone interested in it.
lol seriously dude? stfu with this shit. he has the right to think whatever he wants about the game just like you do, oh boo fucking hoo those poor devs, they made a hunk of crap (and chances are a lot of them knew it was crap but couldn't do anything about it because they were slaves to the publisher-this happens ALL THE TIME, look at the assassin's creed 3 dev exposes that came out for a recent example) and now they're getting criticized for it. the idea that you can't say bad things about a game because you'll hurt the dev's feelings is fucking hilarious. you'd have a point if he was ranting about how the devs are personally piece of shit losers with small dicks or whatever but their work is absolutely fair game
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
Also I was right about you - everything you're going off about now I've already beaten the shit out of , go read my previous posts. I'm not arguing that TESO and wildstar are "BRINGIN THE SUB BACK!" like the rebirth of jesus or conversing about this in a way akin to 2 idiots talking about if superman could beat batman in a fight.
you are acutally doing both of those things
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:30 am |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
aerasal what about FFXI, FFXIV? Both of which have a large audience.
Age Of Conan? Lord of the rings online? Everquest 2, Everquest 1, etc - these games all have subs, some of them have a restricted F2P model as well - but so does WoW.
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Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:09 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
lol seriously dude? stfu with this shit. he has the right to think whatever he wants about the game just like you do, oh boo fucking hoo those poor devs, they made a hunk of crap (and chances are a lot of them knew it was crap but couldn't do anything about it because they were slaves to the publisher-this happens ALL THE TIME, look at the assassin's creed 3 dev exposes that came out for a recent example) and now they're getting criticized for it. the idea that you can't say bad things about a game because you'll hurt the dev's feelings is fucking hilarious. you'd have a point if he was ranting about how the devs are personally piece of shit losers with small dicks or whatever but their work is absolutely fair game
yeah he can and I don't care about the devs but I appreciate the work they've done.
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Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:18 pm |
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Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
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ff 14 is newly released last oct. I imagine it wasnt doing so well before when they decided to take it down and redo it. I looked up ff11 and yeah it surprisingly does still have a sub fee. I wouldn't say that game has a large audience anymore though. The rest of the games you listed you can play without a sub fee.
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Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:23 pm |
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Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
lol seriously dude? stfu with this shit. he has the right to think whatever he wants about the game just like you do, oh boo fucking hoo those poor devs, they made a hunk of crap (and chances are a lot of them knew it was crap but couldn't do anything about it because they were slaves to the publisher-this happens ALL THE TIME, look at the assassin's creed 3 dev exposes that came out for a recent example) and now they're getting criticized for it. the idea that you can't say bad things about a game because you'll hurt the dev's feelings is fucking hilarious. you'd have a point if he was ranting about how the devs are personally piece of shit losers with small dicks or whatever but their work is absolutely fair game
yeah he can and I don't care about the devs but I appreciate the work they've done.
If they didnt spend 100 million on stupid celebrity voice acting and dropped the sub fee, I probably would have bought the game for just its pvp. That may not have been the decision of the devs though.
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Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:26 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
ffxiv came out 3 years ago i believe.. It wasn't doing well before because it came out too early with a lot of problems but it's always had a sub fee.. And like I said, you can play WoW without a sub fee too.. There are varying levels of restrictions.
Point being it's not black and white - WoW isn't in some unique position in terms of their business model, other than being filthy rich. There are lots of games that offer similar payment models, including subscriptions.
What you're trying to say - and doing it very poorly - is that WoW is a sub game, Rift, SWTOR, Aion, and some other higher profile MMOs launched as box+sub models and then went to F2P - but then you're ignoring the other 100 other MMOs out there for a myriad of reasons that don't fit into your viewpoint.
Anyway, from a business perspective it makes a lot of sense for a game to launch at a premium and then offer alternatives later on when the business shrinks. WoW will probably do this in the next few years as their subscriber #s are shrinking fast. Either way a business model really doesn't say much about the quality of a game. Age of Conan is probably the best-made MMO I've ever played, yet it has a F2P option, not that many people play it, but it's still around, people are playing it, it's not dead. And it's better than WoW in just about every way. Someone wants to shit on it and say it's dead, who cares, i'm playing it..
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Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:32 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Aerasal
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
lol seriously dude? stfu with this shit. he has the right to think whatever he wants about the game just like you do, oh boo fucking hoo those poor devs, they made a hunk of crap (and chances are a lot of them knew it was crap but couldn't do anything about it because they were slaves to the publisher-this happens ALL THE TIME, look at the assassin's creed 3 dev exposes that came out for a recent example) and now they're getting criticized for it. the idea that you can't say bad things about a game because you'll hurt the dev's feelings is fucking hilarious. you'd have a point if he was ranting about how the devs are personally piece of shit losers with small dicks or whatever but their work is absolutely fair game
yeah he can and I don't care about the devs but I appreciate the work they've done.
If they didnt spend 100 million on stupid celebrity voice acting and dropped the sub fee, I probably would have bought the game for just its pvp. That may not have been the decision of the devs though.
I think the game had been in development for like 7 years or something crazy - so not launching it as a box model, especially considering it's a console game as well, would just be throwing money away and the producers have said they're gonna try it out and see how it goes . Basically saying that if they can produce enough value for a sub they'll keep it otherwise they'll probably introduce a cash shop or something. I think if they can introduce a compelling end-game grind then people will be willing to pay for it.
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Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:36 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
yeah he can and I don't care about the devs but I appreciate the work they've done.
ok, but if he thinks the work sucks there's no reason for him to appreciate it
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:56 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman@can
I think the game had been in development for like 7 years or something crazy - so not launching it as a box model, especially considering it's a console game as well, would just be throwing money away and the producers have said they're gonna try it out and see how it goes . Basically saying that if they can produce enough value for a sub they'll keep it otherwise they'll probably introduce a cash shop or something. I think if they can introduce a compelling end-game grind then people will be willing to pay for it.
if the best defense you can give of the sub model for the game is "the game has been in development hell and costs a lot of money" then that doesn't speak much of the game. i don't care how much money it cost, i want something i want to enjoy, i don't buy games out of charity
you also might want to think about the fact that games being in dev hell for that long rarely turn out very well
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:57 pm |
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