I've been playing random on ladder and whenever I get pvt , I do the same thing. Opening varies but basically I try to get out DTs in the mid-game. If they don't fuck them over , they put them on their heels as I just keep sending them as I expand. At worst, you're losing a DT for a scan (which isn't a bad trade)

I get zealots/charge , few sentries and templars and the game is a joke. Bio armies fucking suck against zealots, especially when you're feedbacking medivacs/storming their armies and using forcefields.

I always see people making stalkers/collosus in this matchup and I'm just like "wtf" - why rely on being able to kill vikings (which are useless otherwise) with stalkers and dance around your collosus (which is easily sniped by bio anyway) Stalkers are not good vs bio either..

I think with these larger maps - people haven't clued in to the twilight council tech tree being the dominant factor in this matchup.

I started doing twilight in my terran match ups and it's made it 100% easier. The only thing I use a robo for is for observers. I don't really go for the dt's much anymore, as I find just going straight chargelots with templar solves most of the problems.

The only thing I'll get a few stalkers for is to chase down fleeing medivacs, or to protect backdoor drops. The problem is surviving the timing push until you get templars I find.

I see you have not encountered a teran that uses ghosts.
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Well ghosts can even things up quite a bit for sure but that doesn't change the fact that this strategy is overall better than going for collosus/stalker builds unless you're trying to stop some kind of mid-game 50 marine all-in.

That's where tech switches can help. If he has no vikings and is going heavy ghosts, you can switch into collosus. If he doesn't see the tech switch you can rape him.

On the other hand if he is going heavy vikings, just stop making collosus. He ends up with a bunch of useless vikings. You may even get lucky and he might not have a ghost academy.

I think adapting to your opponent's composition is the better way to go than just sticking to one strat. But if you like chargelot/storm play you should check out some of parting's games. MKP took it apart with just straight up MMM though in the GSL team finals.
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Give me a lever long enough and I shall move the world. - Archimedes

A few assumptions I have about this matchup:
stalkers killing vikings/medivacs during a big battle is wasted DPS. The combination of terran bio DPS, viking DPS vs collosus and medivac healing rates all amount to being much more significant in a battle than stalker dps vs air units.

collosus will always die in a battle vs terran bio in an even match up and will never be worth the investment over templars

ghosts are effective vs toss no matter what the toss tech route

stalkers are absolutely trash vs terran bio

When a medivac drop happens, it's more effective to warp in zealots as it happens than to keep your army split with cost ineffective stalkers praying to hit a home run snipe on a medivac.

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Originally posted by turtleman@can
A few assumptions I have about this matchup:
stalkers killing vikings/medivacs during a big battle is wasted DPS. The combination of terran bio DPS, viking DPS vs collosus and medivac healing rates all amount to being much more significant in a battle than stalker dps vs air units.

collosus will always die in a battle vs terran bio in an even match up and will never be worth the investment over templars

ghosts are effective vs toss no matter what the toss tech route

stalkers are absolutely trash vs terran bio

When a medivac drop happens, it's more effective to warp in zealots as it happens than to keep your army split with cost ineffective stalkers praying to hit a home run snipe on a medivac.

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Originally posted by Picka_materina

Some wrong assumptions there.

Stalkers are trash, i agree, and should not be made but for stopping drops. They are much more effective at stopping drops then warping zealots once teran already drops the army. 8 stimmed marines will kill 8 warping zealots before they even appear. If you warp elsewhere, you're already behind and losing probes.

Collosus mostly owns templars. If he has 10 vikings, and you 3 colos, you'll do damage. If you have 10 templars, and he has 3 ghosts, he can make those templars useless. All he has to do is know how to use them. Ghosts don't die that easy. Healed/cloaked ones even slower. Even if you keep templars far behind your army waiting for him to waste emps on army, they WILL cluttler once they move towards the fight. 1 scan to see where they are and 1 emp is all he needs. So only thing he has to be aware is not to choke and panic. You have to move your templars since zealtos will charge into bio, and bio will kite it moving back. This scenario only works if you're sitting waiting for him spread out and he attacks into you, which is really stupid.

I agree that colos/stalker builds are trash, they always were, there's better builds.

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Originally posted by turtleman@can
Not really sure what you're disagreeing with me on here. You're contradicting yourself "stalkers are bad at stopping drops, stalkers are good at stopping drops"

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"collosus suck, collosus are better than templars" "stalkers and collosus suck"

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I'm kinda confused. 10 vikings one-shot a collosus, so how is that going to be good for the toss? Even if you had like 10 stalkers and 3 collosus vs 10 vikings, and remove the terran army completely from the picture, the 10 vikings would probably kill 2 of those collosus and maybe even the third before the stalkers killed them all. That's my point. When you bring in the terran army , it just gets harder. The toss player is relying on impeccable forcefields and stupid play from the terran to break even on this exchange.

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stalkers are not good at stopping drops. In theory they should be but I've seen countless sc2 replays/played tons of games and over time I've observed that this isn't true in practice. I've seen so many toss players with a small group of stalkers get landed on, had their stalkers raped and are lucky to kill the medivac, then warp in zealots to finish the job. Having your stalkers snipe the medivac before it drops enough units to kill your stalkers is like hitting a home-run. So you're basically saying "ok, i'm gonna hit a home run every time I go up to bat" in order for this to be effective.

Same thing with your EMP theory on templars. When you're comparing them to collosus, you're just assuming that the terran is going to land some miracle EMP every game. If you aren't microing your templars behind an army of chargelots (that micro themselves) then you aren't good enough to make any arguments about how good they are.

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Originally posted by turtleman@can
stalkers are not good at stopping drops. In theory they should be but I've seen countless sc2 replays/played tons of games and over time I've observed that this isn't true in practice. I've seen so many toss players with a small group of stalkers get landed on, had their stalkers raped and are lucky to kill the medivac, then warp in zealots to finish the job. Having your stalkers snipe the medivac before it drops enough units to kill your stalkers is like hitting a home-run. So you're basically saying "ok, i'm gonna hit a home run every time I go up to bat" in order for this to be effective.

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Same thing with your EMP theory on templars. When you're comparing them to collosus, you're just assuming that the terran is going to land some miracle EMP every game. If you aren't microing your templars behind an army of chargelots (that micro themselves) then you aren't good enough to make any arguments about how good they are.

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If you had let's say 1000 instances of a toss player anticipating a terran drop with 4 stalkers (inefficient units) - weakening his frontal army and playing passively in anticipation of his opponent being predictable - how many of those instances do you think would be in the toss' favor?

Through my observation it's not nearly enough to warrant this tactic when an uncontested drop of marines/marauders can barely do any damage in the span of time it takes to warp in some zealots in a safe distance and crush the drop.


Same thing with templars/EMP - in practice they are effective. If you're playing some gosu terran that's EMP fucking you to death then you're getting outplayed, it's got nothing to do with the units' effectiveness.

You can make colossus and high templars.

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Originally posted by turtleman@can
If you had let's say 1000 instances of a toss player anticipating a terran drop with 4 stalkers (inefficient units) - weakening his frontal army and playing passively in anticipation of his opponent being predictable - how many of those instances do you think would be in the toss' favor?

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Through my observation it's not nearly enough to warrant this tactic when an uncontested drop of marines/marauders can barely do any damage in the span of time it takes to warp in some zealots in a safe distance and crush the drop.

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Same thing with templars/EMP - in practice they are effective. If you're playing some gosu terran that's EMP fucking you to death then you're getting outplayed, it's got nothing to do with the units' effectiveness.

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When the game you are playing shifts into the mid-game the terran starts to take a presence on the map which forces protoss to stay kind of defensive to get their tech and upgrades out. During this time protoss posture themselves with zealot/sentry/immortals etc at the front, and stalkers in the main. The reason is because Stalkers are incredibly mobile, attack air, catch drops easily, and will catch up with the rest of your army as you move out. Not only are they fast, but once Blink has been researched the ability to deny drops has exponentially increased. However; as your army moves out you might have that pesky terran with 2 fully loaded medivacs just waiting for that moment as you are moving towards the watch tower. As the drop unloads you warp in zealots to delay the incoming damage until your able to clean it up with your standing army. Warping in zealots even if they are getting killed as they warp is still a good move to do because if the drop is just on A-Move they will focus zealots giving you time to run away probes or possibly letting your forge finish an upgrade that's about to finish!
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"<~KaNuKs~> Its just a game"

Wow, someone that understands pvt

I'd only disagree on warping zealots on the drop. I'd rather lose few probes while they move away, or drop an upgrade (unless it's colo range and im going for timing) then to lose 5-6 zealots while warping, so i have to bring back some of the army to deal with the drop, and possibly lose more stuff while that army comes (since if 5-6 zealots warp, i could just move some blink stalkers back quicker).

But while we're on the subject, i'm adopting pheonix play in pvt. Totally negates drops, and during the fight, unless teran focuses vikings on colo, they shoot pheonix. This also rapes if he doesn't have 2 stargates to produce enough vikings+medivas, since because of my pheonix, one suffers. Little vikings, they die, i rape medivacs, little medivacs, not enough healing on ground. My upgrades suffer a little because of this, but in general it works fairly well. Depending on engagement and army composition, i've rolled 2-2 mmm with 0-0 in this composition.
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I have played a few protoss who favor that strategy. It's not that common so it can catch a lot of folks off guard if you aren't constantly scouting. It can be very hard to stop though! As you said if you don't micro the vikings they get tore up by the phoenix who go pretty much untested in the air. Never understood why the idea of having phoenix protect your colossi hasn't caught on in the meta. I've found that just powering through with MMM + Quick upgrades and foregoing viking completely is the way to handle it pretty well. Just have to have a favorable engagement/positioning and constant reinforcements. Pre-splitting your bio units up helps a ton to negate the massive splash. It stops working so well once they get more then 4 colossi but by that point if the terran hasn't figured out what you're doing he's dead anyway!
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"<~KaNuKs~> Its just a game"

mage, I know that you have looked hard into finding sc2 map hacks. Tell me, did u find any that work?

Sure did! Found one in between your two front teeth you gap-toothed faggot.
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"<~KaNuKs~> Its just a game"

you were moxy right? How many times have you came back to hack on war2? Just curious

Sorry to burst your bubble but I haven't played war2 in a good 3-4 years now, Elton. I'm pretty sure that Blid would expose whoever smurf you think I am if you ask him, Elton.

Hey Elton, what do you use to floss?? Just curious
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"<~KaNuKs~> Its just a game"

No blid doesn't reveal smurfs who hack. Nice try swift junior.

I'm sorry, but who are you again?
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"<~KaNuKs~> Its just a game"

k moxy

guy who hacks every time he returns to war2 like a 13 year old punk bitch says wut?

lol? I really don't care who you are or what you think of me.. You seem to be projecting quite a bit of anger at me. I'm going to assume your probably around 21 years old, still live with your parents, stuff lettuce leaves in burger buns, and dedicate way to much time to a game no one cares about..
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"<~KaNuKs~> Its just a game"

What I'm saying are all facts. You've been caught hacking on a 15 year old video game multiple times even after multiple apologies to the community. Your care factor is much higher than mine, and all the years of hacking proves that.

Idk man one could argue that hacking proves that you don't really care...

I may have been caught hacking and may have apologized to the community for it. However I can say that I don't associate with or defend Lance and try to undermine a clearly established group of admins that do their job imo quite well because as you can see I no longer play the game! So honestly, do you think I care more then you do? Fact is you care a great deal. Most players wouldn't go on a crusade against just admins because they want some queer icon by their name. You do, because you're just a big giant care bear.. who cares about... icons. Is Blid really doing a terrible job? Think about it.. Trust me, I don't really like Blid either and you would think I would be against him and support your cause, but in this case you're just an imbecile so I do not.
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"<~KaNuKs~> Its just a game"

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Originally posted by eS[MaGe]
Idk man one could argue that hacking proves that you don't really care...

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I wonder how long it took you in photoshop to correct that ss you send to scrubbo, eh moxy? You're quite the idiot, you jumped on war2ru and started telling everyone that our hardware bans don't work, but you were too scared to jump on the server and test it out. It's obvious why you hate war2custom, because your hacking days would be over with, just like swift.