Anyone have any good ideas for new units that are coming in the new expansion?

Personally, I find the game right now is pretty balanced so I don't think it's really a question of 'what do the races need' but more of 'what would make them all equally better by adding/replacing units that already exist.

Units that I could see replaced:
Overseer (I think blizz has already stated they're getting axed)
Roaches (I don't like the role they currently play)
Banelings (I like this unit but I think they could be changed/axed for zvz matchups mainly)

I think for zerg , they need to keep the staples of lings/hydras/ultras but as far as I'm concerned everything else is on the chopping block.

Don't really have very insightful opinions on p and t but.

For terran, I just really want them to get rid of thors and bring in goliaths or something that's less all-in. I don't really like how terran are usually so bio-heavy. I'd like them to tinker with factory units and make them more positional.
Also get rid of mules and replace this mechanic with something that makes them less threatening/unkillable. I could see a bunker speed build upgrade after factory or something so terran can really use them more effectively later in the game to solidy positions.

For Toss, I think they should get rid of motherships and make carriers more viable. Also maybe give them some more meaningful upgrades for zealots.

carriers need some kinda upgrade or ability that makes them take less damage if say X(maybe 5?) interceptors are alive, or maybe dmg is divided between interceptors and the ship. The problem with carriers is they are easily focus fired down, for such an expensive, late game, slow unit, its very underwhelming.

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Originally posted by turtleman@can
Anyone have any good ideas for new units that are coming in the new expansion?

Personally, I find the game right now is pretty balanced so I don't think it's really a question of 'what do the races need' but more of 'what would make them all equally better by adding/replacing units that already exist.

Units that I could see replaced:
Overseer (I think blizz has already stated they're getting axed)
Roaches (I don't like the role they currently play)
Banelings (I like this unit but I think they could be changed/axed for zvz matchups mainly)

I think for zerg , they need to keep the staples of lings/hydras/ultras but as far as I'm concerned everything else is on the chopping block.

Don't really have very insightful opinions on p and t but.

For terran, I just really want them to get rid of thors and bring in goliaths or something that's less all-in. I don't really like how terran are usually so bio-heavy. I'd like them to tinker with factory units and make them more positional.
Also get rid of mules and replace this mechanic with something that makes them less threatening/unkillable. I could see a bunker speed build upgrade after factory or something so terran can really use them more effectively later in the game to solidy positions.

For Toss, I think they should get rid of motherships and make carriers more viable. Also maybe give them some more meaningful upgrades for zealots.

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Originally posted by Allstar
carriers need some kinda upgrade or ability that makes them take less damage if say X(maybe 5?) interceptors are alive, or maybe dmg is divided between interceptors and the ship. The problem with carriers is they are easily focus fired down, for such an expensive, late game, slow unit, its very underwhelming.

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I think once blizzard realized that Void Rays' whole charge up ray idea didn't really translate into being a good/fair RTS unit and turned them into just a really solid air DPS to air/ground unit - the carrier lost it's place as far as being useful. In Bw they didn't really have a role either but they had a niche use as being a 'oh shit my base is dead time to throw up 5 stargates and a fleatbeacon at my expansion' comeback unit. Now they don't even have that going for them.

They're more like motherships - cool powerful units that don't really translate into being useful in higher level play.

Should watch some whitera stream and see how carriers can be useful


But yea, they basically take too long to build and are slow as shit
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Originally posted by turtleman@can
Anyone have any good ideas for new units that are coming in the new expansion?

Personally, I find the game right now is pretty balanced so I don't think it's really a question of 'what do the races need' but more of 'what would make them all equally better by adding/replacing units that already exist.

Units that I could see replaced:
Overseer (I think blizz has already stated they're getting axed)
Roaches (I don't like the role they currently play)
Banelings (I like this unit but I think they could be changed/axed for zvz matchups mainly)

I think for zerg , they need to keep the staples of lings/hydras/ultras but as far as I'm concerned everything else is on the chopping block.

Don't really have very insightful opinions on p and t but.

For terran, I just really want them to get rid of thors and bring in goliaths or something that's less all-in. I don't really like how terran are usually so bio-heavy. I'd like them to tinker with factory units and make them more positional.
Also get rid of mules and replace this mechanic with something that makes them less threatening/unkillable. I could see a bunker speed build upgrade after factory or something so terran can really use them more effectively later in the game to solidy positions.

For Toss, I think they should get rid of motherships and make carriers more viable. Also maybe give them some more meaningful upgrades for zealots.

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Can't believe you said teran doesnt have a good early push rofl. Bronze league?
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cloaked meat wagons.
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"I tend to thougoughly enjoy my encounters significantly more with 120+ types, as I find them more stimulating. 100-110 people are okay too operating at full capacity." - Paper_Boy

It's going to be interesting to see what they do decide to do.
I really hope they just give overlords detection. I fucking can't stand ghosts/DTs as a zerg player. It's SO fucking hard to deal with cloaked units when you have to have overseers/spore colonies all over the map. It pretty much makes zerg too defensive.

haha fuck that. Then zerg would just be immune to cloak. Cloak can catch terran and toss with their pants down too. I know it's happened to me a few times.
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Give me a lever long enough and I shall move the world. - Archimedes

yeah the difference is that zerg have to go out of their way to deal with detection. overseers are a pain in the ass to produce and keep alive. And spore colonies are very expensive when their only purpose is to detect something that might wander into your mineral line.

toss and terran have much easier/cheaper/better methods of detection.

Either way, in bw zerg had detection with overlords - so overlord speed was always a necessity. DTs and Ghosts were still used - but just not as game breaking.

I find that late game vs toss and terran - ghosts and DTs are a fucking nightmare. They cause a zerg player to shoulder 10k lbs of pressure as soon as a nuke launches or a DTs starts slapping around your drones. And in particular DTs are so easy to produce. I think DTs are the worst issue with this. It takes a toss player like .5 seconds of time/effort to spit out a few of them and send them across the map. Meanwhile the zerg player from that point forward has to constantly fear the possibility of them and usually overcompensate for their existence.

Go back to drawing boards. Can't believe what people complain about.
Teran has 4 ways to detect invis units
Zerg 3
Tos 2.

Yet you complain. Spore and spine are the best defensive structures in the game. Not to mention you can move them around as you wish. The issues people complain about are really mind blowing.
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Originally posted by Picka_materina
Go back to drawing boards. Can't believe what people complain about.
Teran has 4 ways to detect invis units
Zerg 3
Tos 2.

Yet you complain. Spore and spine are the best defensive structures in the game. Not to mention you can move them around as you wish. The issues people complain about are really mind blowing.

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Originally posted by turtleman@can
Anyone have any good ideas for new units that are coming in the new expansion?

Personally, I find the game right now is pretty balanced so I don't think it's really a question of 'what do the races need' but more of 'what would make them all equally better by adding/replacing units that already exist.

Units that I could see replaced:
Overseer (I think blizz has already stated they're getting axed)
Roaches (I don't like the role they currently play)
Banelings (I like this unit but I think they could be changed/axed for zvz matchups mainly)

I think for zerg , they need to keep the staples of lings/hydras/ultras but as far as I'm concerned everything else is on the chopping block.

Don't really have very insightful opinions on p and t but.

For terran, I just really want them to get rid of thors and bring in goliaths or something that's less all-in. I don't really like how terran are usually so bio-heavy. I'd like them to tinker with factory units and make them more positional.
Also get rid of mules and replace this mechanic with something that makes them less threatening/unkillable. I could see a bunker speed build upgrade after factory or something so terran can really use them more effectively later in the game to solidy positions.

For Toss, I think they should get rid of motherships and make carriers more viable. Also maybe give them some more meaningful upgrades for zealots.

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Originally posted by Aerasal
i didn't actually think they'd remove or change units at first, just add like all the other previous blizz rts's, but I saw somewhere that they actually will remove and change shit. that's just like admitting they got shit wrong the first time around and it's gonna take them 1 or 2 more tries to make things right. huge cop out and money grab since the two other games will likely cost 60 dollars apiece.

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honestly I played SC2 single player for weeks. I beat every mission on normal/hard and brutal. I beat all the challenges. I got all the achievements. Hell, I even played that stupid viking arcade game for a few hours. I'd say that SC2 was worth 60 bucks without the multiplayer. If they release the expansions with close to the same amount of single player content, I'll happily pay 60 bucks a pop. Although yeah, like kub said they are going to be expansion priced.

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Originally posted by Aerasal

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Originally posted by Picka_materina
Go back to drawing boards. Can't believe what people complain about.
Teran has 4 ways to detect invis units
Zerg 3
Tos 2.

Yet you complain. Spore and spine are the best defensive structures in the game. Not to mention you can move them around as you wish. The issues people complain about are really mind blowing.

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who cares about the number. the toss obs is invis so its obviously a million times better than an overseer that gets snipped all game. zerg easily have the most difficulty dealing with stealth.

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Yea, you're pretty much irrational and subjective.

Im not sure how you can whine about anything since when you compare numbers with anything, tos loses each time. Compared spellcasters recently, it's insane how bad templar is compared to ghost/infestor.
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Originally posted by Picka_materina
Yea, you're pretty much irrational and subjective.

Im not sure how you can whine about anything since when you compare numbers with anything, tos loses each time. Compared spellcasters recently, it's insane how bad templar is compared to ghost/infestor.

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Originally posted by kublikhan

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Originally posted by Aerasal
i didn't actually think they'd remove or change units at first, just add like all the other previous blizz rts's, but I saw somewhere that they actually will remove and change shit. that's just like admitting they got shit wrong the first time around and it's gonna take them 1 or 2 more tries to make things right. huge cop out and money grab since the two other games will likely cost 60 dollars apiece.

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Blizzard said HOTS will be priced as an expansion set, not standalone game.

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What numbers are you talking about? I don't know how you can compare spell casters anyway.

Go play zerg for a while and see how you feel after a 45 minute zvt where you're being nuked every 15 seconds. Or go play a zvp where your opponent warps in DTs all over the map and you have to go out of your way to hunt them down/defend vs them while your opponent gets a huge macro advantage on you. The issue is that once you hit late game - macroing is king and if you have to spend 10 seconds countering something that your opponent spends 2 seconds doing, you're fucked.

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Originally posted by turtleman@can
What numbers are you talking about? I don't know how you can compare spell casters anyway.

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Go play zerg

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for a while and see how you feel after a 45 minute zvt where you're being nuked every 15 seconds.

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Or go play a zvp where your opponent warps in DTs all over the map and you have to go out of your way to hunt them down/defend vs them while your opponent gets a huge macro advantage on you.

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The issue is that once you hit late game - macroing is king and if you have to spend 10 seconds countering something that your opponent spends 2 seconds doing, you're fucked.

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Originally posted by Aerasal
you're a bitch with an attitude and you're opinions are stupid as fuck. who the hell compares numbers anyway.

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DT harass is way more devastating against zerg than terran.

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your overseers get snipped pretty easily by stalkers in battles

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protoss doesn't even need detection against zerg. i haven't really seen burrowed banelings used to much extent against toss and with most armies rolling out with an obs, I can see why.

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for fucks sake, I never said anything about balance or removing DT harass. some people on these boards have no common sense thinking whatsoever. all I ever did was reply to your "toss have the least amount of options for detection" by saying zerg easily have the most difficulty dealing with stealth because it sure isn't protoss lol.

and in response to the rest of your blah blah, I see overseers getting sniped quite a bit in pro games so yeah but you're the real pro here, right? burrowed infestors and roaches

Nukes are brutal vs zerg. They wipe out your larvae which in a late game situation when you're maxed and you've got 75 idle larvae to restock once you clash armies, it's game changing. Not to mention the fact that a nuke forces a zerg player to essentially stop playing the game and observe the entire map.

Also those criteria of your comparison don't mean anything. Infestors might have more mana than a templar but feedback one shots an infestor. Same with EMP - wipes it out. They all serve multiple purposes and in the right hands will decimate your opponent. It's not like comparing a zergling to a zealot. Their stats only speak to 1/10th of the issue.

I think the thing you're overlooking is that DTs existed in BW - and Zerg did not require lair detection - and they were still used vs zerg regularly and in deadly fashion. The argument here is that it takes 2 seconds to make a DT and 10 seconds to counter it (just throwing out arbitrary timeframes but you get my drift)

I'm not saying get rid of DTs. I'm just saying make it less strenuous on zerg to deal with them. It's not easy to have Overlords posted everywhere either - they're fodder.

I think all you're seeing here is "ZERG QQ" because that's been the kind of vibe that zerg players have given since beta. If you think zerg are OP fine, but just because you think that they are doesn't mean that they shouldn't tweak other issues. If it takes an exploitable gameplay weakness for toss to compete with zerg, then maybe they need to change that?

DT rushes are most effective vs Terran and Protoss. Just an FYI.

Also, you can always use the previous overlords you HAVE BUILT THROUGHOUT THE ENITIRE GAME to turn them into overseers once you're tier2; so downtime between one being sniped and another is literally 5 seconds.

p.s any strat you use that catches your opponent completely off-guard is devastating.

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Originally posted by Aerasal
all I ever did was reply to your "toss have the least amount of options for detection" by saying zerg easily have the most difficulty dealing with stealth because it sure isn't protoss lol.

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and in response to the rest of your blah blah, I see overseers getting sniped quite a bit in pro games so yeah but you're the real pro here, right? burrowed infestors and roaches

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Originally posted by turtleman@can
Also those criteria of your comparison don't mean anything.

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The argument here is that it takes 2 seconds to make a DT and 10 seconds to counter it (just throwing out arbitrary timeframes but you get my drift)

I'm not saying get rid of DTs. I'm just saying make it less strenuous on zerg to deal with them. It's not easy to have Overlords posted everywhere either - they're fodder.

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I think all you're seeing here is "ZERG QQ" because that's been the kind of vibe that zerg players have given since beta. If you think zerg are OP fine, but just because you think that they are doesn't mean that they shouldn't tweak other issues. If it takes an exploitable gameplay weakness for toss to compete with zerg, then maybe they need to change that?

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They've stated that they're not going to address any more balance issues until the expansion pack hits - although I don't think there are any glaring problems right now.

Which is the point of this thread and my suggestion to get rid of lair detection. Blizzard has already stated that overseers are getting the axe which can only lead me to believe that overlords will gain detection.

There's serious balance issues. Check latest gsl - zvz final. Check gsl before that, 4terans. Current mlg, top 8 from groups have 1 tos. More issues gona arise once more abuse becomes apparent. Terans have not even scratched the surface.
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you're way too stupid to have any sort of real discussion with as you continue to contort everything I say.

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Originally posted by Picka_materina

Rofl, you're quite new then. I guess you did not see what a cloacked banshee or DT does to tos if he did not scout it, or "sense" it's coming. Keep the QQ coming.

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Originally posted by Shynko

Also, you can always use the previous overlords you HAVE BUILT THROUGHOUT THE ENITIRE GAME to turn them into overseers once you're tier2; so downtime between one being sniped and another is literally 5 seconds.

p.s any strat you use that catches your opponent completely off-guard is devastating.

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Originally posted by Aerasal
how can you conclude from me saying zerg has the most difficulty dealing with stealth throughout an entire game that I somehow think a cloaked banshee or DT doesn't kill an unprepared opponent?

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last time I played sc2 (last year)

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MLG
top 12
2 tos, 4 zerg, 6 teran.
top 6
1 zerg, 5 teran.

ballanced
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