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AGNB
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 82
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ZvP Problem.
The problem - Protoss army composed of a few zealots, a LOT of stalkers, and 3 collosus.
Lets say 5 Zeal, 35 Stalker, 3 Collosus. This composition is super fucking hard to stop. It comes as the Zerg is taking third (unless you fast 3 FE, but that can be risky when they have a lot of gates)
So here's my problem, Ret and a bunch of Pro Zergs say to build ~9 corruptors to lead in to wipe out the collosus, but the problem is this. Recently (playing ~3k masters protoss') If I send in 10 corruptors before my roach/hydra army, the stalkers melt the corruptors and i can only kill about 1 or 2 collosus at most, which leaves the ENTIRE protoss army left, and still about 2 collosus.
Zerg armies cannot attack into an even-sized protoss army or even a slightly smaller protoss army, that contains a shitton of stalkers + collosus with range in the back.
What the fuck do I do?
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Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:56 pm |
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Sparkz102
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 2999
Location: War2 |
Re: ZvP Problem.
quote:
Originally posted by AGNB
The problem - Protoss army composed of a few zealots, a LOT of stalkers, and 3 collosus.
Lets say 5 Zeal, 35 Stalker, 3 Collosus. This composition is super fucking hard to stop. It comes as the Zerg is taking third (unless you fast 3 FE, but that can be risky when they have a lot of gates)
So here's my problem, Ret and a bunch of Pro Zergs say to build ~9 corruptors to lead in to wipe out the collosus, but the problem is this. Recently (playing ~3k masters protoss') If I send in 10 corruptors before my roach/hydra army, the stalkers melt the corruptors and i can only kill about 1 or 2 collosus at most, which leaves the ENTIRE protoss army left, and still about 2 collosus.
Zerg armies cannot attack into an even-sized protoss army or even a slightly smaller protoss army, that contains a shitton of stalkers + collosus with range in the back.
What the fuck do I do?
then send in the roach 1st to tank even if they r range - then hydra to dps n own the gateway units at the same time the corrupters to kill the colossus - position and timing can win more games then skill can.. but i guess u can argue positioning and timing is skill.. so maybe some more refining of ur attack might help - like u dont send in banelings 1st then lings ya know?
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I am also a contradiction of my own lies
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Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:16 pm |
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BanMe
Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 2472
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Re: ZvP Problem.
I'd suggest sending in your forces and having the curruptors flank from as close to the rear as possible. This means the stalkers must get out of the front to hit them, meaning your front line units can move closer to the collossus to take them out quicker. 5 zealots should dissolve to pretty much anything at that point. Remember to use all your corruption. And if you can afford an infestation pit that will help by limiting the maneuverability of their stalkers - just 1 or 2 fungals can completely throw the toss into a panick. Also, ultras would do pretty well vs that army comp
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Kanuks - The fact is you and foonew tried a double gay on me and ended up being BOTH behind me. Enough fucking said.
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Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:45 pm |
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kublikhan
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 2849
Location: Schaumburg, IL |
Check out this replay:
St_Ace vs KyrixZenith
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Give me a lever long enough and I shall move the world. - Archimedes
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Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:00 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
Forget about what these pros are saying, just click on the help menu in the starcraft 2 interface and look at the table that shows which units counter which.
stalkers do heavy damage against roaches AND corruptors. Hydras/roaches get melted by collosus. Your only advantage is that corruptors do heavy damage against collosus, but they only do 20 damage per 2 seconds, a collosus has 350 life. So basically you need 8 corruptors to take down a collosus in 4 seconds. which means that you need 12 seconds to take down 3 collosus. And of course Hydras rape everything.. But you're basically up against the fact that A: Hydras are slow as fuck and probably won't be in the fight until your corruptors are raped and B: In order for the corruptors to do their work you basically need to somehow get a group of slow as fuck units to simultaneously attack a ball of units while your giant ball of ALL ranged ground units need to form a concave around your enemy's army. And if they have sentries, you're even more fucked.
The odds of this happening are like 1 in 50 which means that you're generally going to lose this fight with that composition. and you're relying on being ahead of your opponent to replenish your army fast enough to not get run over afterwards.
Because my macro is pretty terrible, I generally consider myself having lost the game if I'm playing passive enough to let this kind of scenario play out. You should always be fucking with protoss. If you let them just mass up a giant deathball, you're fucked. roach/hydra are an effective counter to early/mid game gateway units but once they're busting out with tier 3 units that counter the shit out of your ground army and you're relying on a slow as fuck flying unit to stop them, you're in trouble. Try going mutas/ upgraded lings - to ultras. It might set you back in that you've got to make a shitload of sunkens to survive but once u get mutas out on the map, and you have speedlings you're basically dictating the flow of the game and not letting them just mass up and run you over (which is exactly what a protoss player needs to do to win)
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Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:11 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
I found some guy on youtube who casted one of my games (it's like 30 minutes long)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n8DoWJRBCU
I lol'd - he makes me sound like i'm some pro and I'm pretty sure I was drunk during this game
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Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:14 pm |
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Sparkz102
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 2999
Location: War2 |
heres another annoying option - infestor neuro-parasite
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I am also a contradiction of my own lies
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Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:46 am |
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AGNB
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 82
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Yeah, some of what was said here is actually helpful, I think i was being lazy and didn't flank properly, the way BanMe explained it is really similar to how it should/does playout. Good shit, also I don't use corruption much.
Its pretty hard to remember all the shit you have to do every game to dominate. and dominate i will.
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Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:52 am |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by kublikhan
Check out this replay:
St_Ace vs KyrixZenith
this game was pretty interesting. I think that was a pretty ideal situation for zerg though since he was basically dominating the toss player throughout most of the game (severely delaying his FE and having 2-3 bases up on him for most of the game)
I think he could have really just gone for ultras immediately and run him over instead of going corruptors (which were ideally located to flank on that map in particular). Most maps you don't have that flexibility. I liked how he massed ultras / infestors at the end though and just kinda sat there mining on 5 bases.
Right now I have 2 problems with zerg matchups: All in marines/svcs when they deny scouting and zvz roach play. I can't stand terran all ins because if they kill your scouting drone - deny your overlord and deny any ling scouts with 3-4 marines on their ramp, there's absolutely no way to know it's coming beyond when they move out. And then you're basically at the mercy of what you just decided to build on a whim. I just lost a game where he moved out, and I had just droned up- I was dead as soon as I saw his marines move out because I couldn't react in time.
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Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:13 am |
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passwillworkeasycompany
Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 870
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did you mean to block that barrack in the video turtleman?
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Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:10 am |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Shotgun_
lmfao @ that guy on tmans cast, he sounds like he has a 100m long nose, he doesnt understand that these 2 players are very newb
*types in shotgun's name on youtube*
*no results*
*types in shotgun's name in master league
*critical error*
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Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:01 am |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by passwillworkeasycompany
did you mean to block that barrack in the video turtleman?
Yeah, although it's impossible to say if you're actually blocking them since they could theoretically be building it anywhere. I generally just try to spam click my drone around where they would normally build one and hope it stops them.
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Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:02 am |
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Sparkz102
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 2999
Location: War2 |
critical error lmao
_________________
I am also a contradiction of my own lies
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Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:14 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
lol I just noticed that shotgun is so jealous he went out of his way to dog me on youtube
ROFL
thanks for the support asshole
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Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:10 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
Also I noticed frost made some youtube videos of us playing
http://www.youtube.com/user/FrostyStarcraft2
messiah vs spudy lol nice
frost what software are you using? I wanted to try making one of those but my recorded games were coming out as like 2 GB files every 30 seconds of footage
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Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:29 pm |
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foonat
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 7716
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FrOsTeD
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Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:52 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
But wouldn't a 15 minute game come out as being like 50 gigs or something? It must take a long time to encode
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Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:13 pm |
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passwillworkeasycompany
Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 870
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if you can window sc2..you can use camstudio i bet and record it to a lower bitrate avi.but doesnt sc2 have replays you can share..if so why bother
Last edited by passwillworkeasycompany on Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:12 pm |
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passwillworkeasycompany
Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 870
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if you can window sc2..you can use camstudio i bet and record it to a lower bitrate avi.but doesnt sc2 have replays you can share..if so why bother
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Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:17 pm |
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turtleman@can
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 8841
Location: Canada |
I was just wondering if there was a better way. I've tried it and it was way too much hassle. First of all it lags my PC to stream in high res , then I'm literally filling up a hard drive with the video of one recorded game , and then I didn't even get into encoding it which I'm guessing would take an average PC hours given the filesize.
I just figured that where there are so many people doing it, there must be some streamlined way and it really can't be as difficult as I found it when I tried.
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Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:23 pm |
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passwillworkeasycompany
Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 870
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well let me see you want it to flv i guess for like youtube.you need somehting that can take it straight to flv.im not sure that exist,but im sure the replays can be shared,until a new patch...i think youl have to look into video editing for what your doing and the filesize is huge and time converting.
crap i found converting recorded shows on comp.
flv-looks like shit until you get up in the bitrates-would not use it
3g2-fast processing takes like 2000 bitrate to make a good dvd movie
mp4-slow processing but smaller bitrate if you got some cores do them to this 800 bitrate 720p, can go lower with less screen ratio
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Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:44 pm |
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passwillworkeasycompany
Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 870
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rethinked this it seems you are in a no win situation without getting into video editing,i would share some replays if possible.
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Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:52 pm |
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passwillworkeasycompany
Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 870
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i could of swore i posted this but the program i use for converting is called winff very customizable so you can get a more speedy processing to filesize.
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Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:11 pm |
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