| Author
|
Thread |
  |
|
BanMe
Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 2472
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sypher
My point is, toss players bitch and complain without trying out different shit. All toss just go mass stalker sentry collosus for a 1a push. They bitch when they lose to an unpressured 5base zerg vs their 2-3 base. Of course toss will lose if they let zerg go unpunished. It was the same thing in BW.
Reason people do that is because it's all that works. Zealots are just about completely worthless, storm is terrible, DT's raped by overseers, and void rays vs zerg? Anyway yeah those are the units toss have to make, sorry. Having 5 base isn't because "toss so dumb lol", its because hatcheries are 100 less than a nexus, you don't need to spend money on production buildings, and you move much faster than toss. Yeah, it is just like BW, where toss always had to stick to 2 base, 3 if they are lucky. Funny also to compare to BW, when PvZ was always an uphill battle ( illustrated often at the pro level). And zerg can compensate for just about all their weaknesses in BW with things like fast creep speed, spawn larvae, and the ability to control group any amount of units (having to deal with control grouping large amounts of zerglings was a practical pain in the ass, but worth it because they are so good).
_________________
Kanuks - The fact is you and foonew tried a double gay on me and ended up being BOTH behind me. Enough fucking said.
|
Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:14 pm |
|
|
kublikhan
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 2849
Location: Schaumburg, IL |
quote:
Originally posted by Picka_materina
I mean, i'm kind of getting used to seeing all the whining going on with sc2 which race is OP, which is not, lots of crybabies, but it's strange seeing something like that on a war2 forum, where bloodlust is clearly OP, where 12/2 on gow is clearly OP against 8 or 6, yet people played, learned and evened out the positions and made the game MORE INTERESTING.
I wonder how much different war2 would have looked like if we got a new balance patch every few weeks/months like in sc2:
War2 Patch 1.1:
Ogres no longer belch when clicked on
War2 Patch 1.1.1.2:
Balance Changes:
Lust is reduced in strength 50%
Flame Shield increased in strength 100%
Whirlwind increased in strength 100%
Raise Dead now creates permanent skeletons
Catapult/Ballista speed increased 20%
Cost of dragon/gryphon reduced by 25%
Invisible mages can now be detected by eye of kilrogg and zepplins/flying machines
map changes:
Can now place town hall close to mine at 6/8 on gow.
Trees thickened behind 4/6/9.
Destructible debris added at all 30k expansions.
New map added:
Lost temple
_________________
Give me a lever long enough and I shall move the world. - Archimedes
Last edited by kublikhan on Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
|
|
Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:49 pm |
|
|
kublikhan
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 2849
Location: Schaumburg, IL |
BTW, GSL season 3 vods are up:
Season 3
_________________
Give me a lever long enough and I shall move the world. - Archimedes
|
|
Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:51 pm |
|
|
|
|
BanMe
Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 2472
|
quote:
Originally posted by Picka_materina
quote:
Originally posted by Rat
Ya but we play wc2 for fun and sc2 to win.
Not really.
And the constant whine from everyone is just limiting the game and not letting it develop. Like people knew you could wall in, peon hop, tower bug, move to s9 etc etc as soon as the game came out. No, they played the odds and adapted. There's so many units in sc2 and so many possibilities, they just have to let people develop shit.
war2 isn't really an appropriate analogy - at it's core it's a much simpler game and had a very small community with limited replays etc. It was quite unique in the way it developed.
SC/BW has been out for almost as long as war2 at this point, so it serves as much better comparison
_________________
Kanuks - The fact is you and foonew tried a double gay on me and ended up being BOTH behind me. Enough fucking said.
|
|
Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:25 pm |
|
|
Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
|
quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
quote:
Originally posted by Sypher
My point is, toss players bitch and complain without trying out different shit. All toss just go mass stalker sentry collosus for a 1a push. They bitch when they lose to an unpressured 5base zerg vs their 2-3 base. Of course toss will lose if they let zerg go unpunished. It was the same thing in BW.
Reason people do that is because it's all that works. Zealots are just about completely worthless, storm is terrible, DT's raped by overseers, and void rays vs zerg? Anyway yeah those are the units toss have to make, sorry. Having 5 base isn't because "toss so dumb lol", its because hatcheries are 100 less than a nexus, you don't need to spend money on production buildings, and you move much faster than toss. Yeah, it is just like BW, where toss always had to stick to 2 base, 3 if they are lucky. Funny also to compare to BW, when PvZ was always an uphill battle ( illustrated often at the pro level). And zerg can compensate for just about all their weaknesses in BW with things like fast creep speed, spawn larvae, and the ability to control group any amount of units (having to deal with control grouping large amounts of zerglings was a practical pain in the ass, but worth it because they are so good).
storm is difficult to tech to no doubt but how the hell is it terrible once you have it?
quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
quote:
Originally posted by Picka_materina
quote:
Originally posted by Rat
Ya but we play wc2 for fun and sc2 to win.
Not really.
And the constant whine from everyone is just limiting the game and not letting it develop. Like people knew you could wall in, peon hop, tower bug, move to s9 etc etc as soon as the game came out. No, they played the odds and adapted. There's so many units in sc2 and so many possibilities, they just have to let people develop shit.
war2 isn't really an appropriate analogy - at it's core it's a much simpler game and had a very small community with limited replays etc. It was quite unique in the way it developed.
SC/BW has been out for almost as long as war2 at this point, so it serves as much better comparison
this whole debate is balance between the races. war2 was always a mirror match even if someone played human (obv besides lust/heal and other minor shit but nothing compared to bw/sc2) so how does that even compare?
|
|
Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:47 pm |
|
|
|
|
7VlesSiah
Joined: 16 Feb 2001
Posts: 2456
|
They are whining because the game still has balance issues. You can argue SC2 is completely fair and Blizzard should close shop and move onto their next game. And I'd argue you are dead wrong and there is still a lot of changes Blizzard can do to improve the game.
It is funny hearing people like Sypher tell tosses to stop whining when he is unable to refute any of their complaints.
_________________
I have hacks in my brain and I use them.
|
|
Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:43 pm |
|
|
DrunkeN
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 616
|
First off you guys are adding to the fire. "They" is a hand full of nubs who chat on forums and don't actually play/watch a lot of sc2. There are a shiit load of different strats out there...just because you see a lot of the "same" builds doesn't mean there aren't those way out there strats that do work.
_________________
Anti-Jabroni
|
|
Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:08 pm |
|
|
Kyr.Luoson
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 1696
|
To believe protoss players don't try other strategies is completely naive, the fact is most one base strategies are extremely risky and depend on luck of not being scouted
Voidrays and dts are extremely easily countered by both terran and zerg if scouted or expected and Ht's just simply take too long, are too gas costly and only useful late game as you need 4 gas to use them properly
HT's are strong once you have them though, although rumors are blizzard going nerf HT's in the next patch too lmao
I also find immortals just generally well... suck I think blizzard thought they were too strong and has over compensated with there costs and build time, they get demolished by roaches not because the roach is stronger but because it's so hard to get a good number of immortals out
Orbs are the best unit in the game though and is definitely the biggest reason protoss win games
|
|
Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:12 pm |
|
|
Sparkz102
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 2999
Location: War2 |
quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
quote:
Originally posted by Picka_materina
quote:
Originally posted by Rat
Ya but we play wc2 for fun and sc2 to win.
Not really.
And the constant whine from everyone is just limiting the game and not letting it develop. Like people knew you could wall in, peon hop, tower bug, move to s9 etc etc as soon as the game came out. No, they played the odds and adapted. There's so many units in sc2 and so many possibilities, they just have to let people develop shit.
war2 isn't really an appropriate analogy - at it's core it's a much simpler game and had a very small community with limited replays etc. It was quite unique in the way it developed.
SC/BW has been out for almost as long as war2 at this point, so it serves as much better comparison
i agree, think and say the same thing as picka, i think its a great analogy proportionately. ive even said this back months ago when people cried about reapers, i compared them to lust - however thanks to bitches, we had reapers nerf and said fuck the learning curve.
comparing sc/bw to sc2 is making the same mistake of comparing war2 to war3, sequence or not, it IS a different game. [altho war2 and war3 are nowhere near as similiar as sc/bw to sc2, the point still stands.]
_________________
I am also a contradiction of my own lies
|
|
Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:55 pm |
|
|
Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
|
quote:
Originally posted by DrunkeN
First off you guys are adding to the fire. "They" is a hand full of nubs who chat on forums and don't actually play/watch a lot of sc2. There are a shiit load of different strats out there...just because you see a lot of the "same" builds doesn't mean there aren't those way out there strats that do work.
no, "they" are some of the best players in the world. i'm not saying they're right or wrong, but on the last state of the game broadcast it was nony and incontrol commenting on protoss being underpowered
|
|
Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:04 pm |
|
|
Aerasal
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 3437
|
though it's funny how there's always a bias for your race (i guess i can't blame them). obviously it was the likes of idra, artosis, and some other top asian zergs complaining the most and loudest about zerg being weak. now as some protoss players express their concerns the zerg players are quiet.
|
|
Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:06 pm |
|
|
kublikhan
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 2849
Location: Schaumburg, IL |
Did all these zerg players miss the GSL season 2 finals? They keep trying to do 14 hatch every game and are getting roflstomped.
_________________
Give me a lever long enough and I shall move the world. - Archimedes
|
|
Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:34 pm |
|
|
Kalmah
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Biggs.
Why would anyone get 2 cy cores??
2x faster aircraft upgrades maybe? 
|
|
Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:50 am |
|
|
Kalmah
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 51
|
quote:
Originally posted by foonat
excellent strategy
Stop being ironic, it really is awesome strategy actually . I rarely lose if I happen to place cannons in right locations.
|
|
Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:51 am |
|
|
Kalmah
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 51
|
quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
they're not exactly "spare" minerals, they're minerals that can't be spent even near as cost effectively. I've tried replacing cannons with zealots it's horrific as one might expect since they are stationary.
It doesn't matter if they are stationary, just place them to your base entrance at the very start of game and tech up very fast so that enemy doesn't realise to pass you defense with air units until its too late already when you got army of voids. Lets say basic game, terran is making mass marine marauder, he scouts that i got mass defense of cannons, so he starts making tanks. Meanwhile i get multiple voids since he doesn't realise to make enough anti air until its too late and im already hammering his base and there is nothing he can do. I have also noticed that voids fare quite well against vikings, therefore they are not that big threat.
|
|
Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:57 am |
|
|
Biggs.
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 415
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kalmah
quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
they're not exactly "spare" minerals, they're minerals that can't be spent even near as cost effectively. I've tried replacing cannons with zealots it's horrific as one might expect since they are stationary.
It doesn't matter if they are stationary, just place them to your base entrance at the very start of game and tech up very fast so that enemy doesn't realise to pass you defense with air units until its too late already when you got army of voids. Lets say basic game, terran is making mass marine marauder, he scouts that i got mass defense of cannons, so he starts making tanks. Meanwhile i get multiple voids since he doesn't realise to make enough anti air until its too late and im already hammering his base and there is nothing he can do. I have also noticed that voids fare quite well against vikings, therefore they are not that big threat.
Stop posting about strategy, every one in this forum is a far better player than you, so your posts are just dumb.
2 cy cores is just stupid, at least at this point of the game.
Saying void rays are good against vikings is even worst, since viking outrange (9 to 6) and are faster (2.75 to 2.25) than void rays. You could kill infinite amount of VRs with just 1 viking.
|
|
Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:32 am |
|
|
Rat
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1045
|
Kalmah also forgot that Terran can still scout your P base with scans.
_________________
GreenHorn: Nexus cried every time I beat him but still thought he was better.
|
|
Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:36 pm |
|
|
Kalmah
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Biggs.
Stop posting about strategy, every one in this forum is a far better player than you, so your posts are just dumb.
How you know im worse than them, we have never played a match. So fail.
When you pointed out that voids are toast against vikings, yes you are right. I was just saying if i already got like 20 voids, enemy has only like 3 vikings, he can't do shit with them. Stop conjuring my words to something else.
|
|
Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:34 am |
|
|
GreenHorn
Joined: 04 Nov 2000
Posts: 1506
|
If you make 20 voids you are a newbie playing with other newbies.
|
|
Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:18 am |
|
|
Biggs.
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 415
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kalmah
quote:
Originally posted by Biggs.
Stop posting about strategy, every one in this forum is a far better player than you, so your posts are just dumb.
How you know im worse than them, we have never played a match. So fail.
When you pointed out that voids are toast against vikings, yes you are right. I was just saying if i already got like 20 voids, enemy has only like 3 vikings, he can't do shit with them. Stop conjuring my words to something else.
Almost everyone here is playing in Diamond, you are not, and I have seen your posts, so I`m quite sure you suck
Also, I know everyone is better than you because no one else would be able to get 20 VRs, because they are matched up with decent players.
|
|
Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:05 pm |
|
|
Sypher
Joined: 18 Sep 2000
Posts: 5698
Location: Detroit, MI |
quote:
Originally posted by Kalmah
quote:
Originally posted by Biggs.
Stop posting about strategy, every one in this forum is a far better player than you, so your posts are just dumb.
How you know im worse than them, we have never played a match. So fail.
When you pointed out that voids are toast against vikings, yes you are right. I was just saying if i already got like 20 voids, enemy has only like 3 vikings, he can't do shit with them. Stop conjuring my words to something else.
What terribad terran is going to let you make 20 voids?
_________________
"I tend to thougoughly enjoy my encounters significantly more with 120+ types, as I find them more stimulating. 100-110 people are okay too operating at full capacity." - Paper_Boy
|
|
Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:37 pm |
|
|
Kalmah
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 51
|
rofl honestly only way to find it out is playing a match.
|
|
Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:51 am |
|
|
Sypher
Joined: 18 Sep 2000
Posts: 5698
Location: Detroit, MI |
quote:
Originally posted by Kalmah
rofl honestly only way to find it out is playing a match.
I am not sure if this is you trying to talk shit to me, but i'd rape the shit out of you even tho I haven't played in over a month.
_________________
"I tend to thougoughly enjoy my encounters significantly more with 120+ types, as I find them more stimulating. 100-110 people are okay too operating at full capacity." - Paper_Boy
|
|
Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:07 am |
|
|
Sypher
Joined: 18 Sep 2000
Posts: 5698
Location: Detroit, MI |
BTW re: GSL season 3.
I really enjoyed watching Julyzergs games. Just looking at the mini map was awesome. Looked a lot like BW(constant movement) instead of the standard "lets clump units and sit with our thumbs up our asses."
I think he has a lot of potential to go far this season.
_________________
"I tend to thougoughly enjoy my encounters significantly more with 120+ types, as I find them more stimulating. 100-110 people are okay too operating at full capacity." - Paper_Boy
|
|
Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:09 am |
|
|
Sparkz102
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 2999
Location: War2 |
quote:
Originally posted by Sypher
BTW re: GSL season 3.
I really enjoyed watching Julyzergs games. Just looking at the mini map was awesome. Looked a lot like BW(constant movement) instead of the standard "lets clump units and sit with our thumbs up our asses."
I think he has a lot of potential to go far this season.
have u seen haypro?
_________________
I am also a contradiction of my own lies
|
|
Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:42 pm |
|
|
kublikhan
Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 2849
Location: Schaumburg, IL |
quote:
Originally posted by Sypher
BTW re: GSL season 3.
I really enjoyed watching Julyzergs games. Just looking at the mini map was awesome. Looked a lot like BW(constant movement) instead of the standard "lets clump units and sit with our thumbs up our asses."
I think he has a lot of potential to go far this season.
I liked the Clide vs Leenock games. Check 'em out if you haven't seem 'em yet.
_________________
Give me a lever long enough and I shall move the world. - Archimedes
|
|
Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:25 pm |
|
|
|
|
7VlesSiah
Joined: 16 Feb 2001
Posts: 2456
|
I just watched that series. Epic games. It was like the games were choreographed they were so awesome.
_________________
I have hacks in my brain and I use them.
|
|
Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:53 am |
|
|
|
Warcraft Occult Forum Index
-> Starcraft II General Discussion
