Besides Nerzy?

I can't/don't track any of the non-US guys, any of you guys doing well on ladder?

guess everyone sucks, win more games

To be honest i find SC2 to be completely repetitive, you have to do certain things to avoid getting run over by other things at the start, kinda gets boring and i can't play more then 2 games without trying some rediculous bs so i lose alot more then i should
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if you play 1on1s then who do u ask for help when ur ''BEING TOWERED''
or do u just ask your opponent to stop coz u see it

lol

i kind of agree with you shotgun =[

damn loser talk in here

i think im like 1200, not sure. i switched to zerg this week after switching to terran the week before

true, if sc2 gets completely boring, I know a server where you can play a stellar RTS that came out in 1995. It is very awesome, and there is one map played that is the pinnacle of all RTS maps

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Originally posted by foonat
lol

i kind of agree with you shotgun =[

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^^ play zerg. games are always very intense :O
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"I tend to thougoughly enjoy my encounters significantly more with 120+ types, as I find them more stimulating. 100-110 people are okay too operating at full capacity." - Paper_Boy

first of all if you play protoss, you can't say shit about the complexity of the game. as far as I'm concerned protoss are broken in terms of varied gameplay. They should have been only selectable in the tutorial mode of the game because they're like playing sc2 on training wheels (unless you're mez and you're blink stalker raping my overseers and raping me with DTs)

secondly if you think playing terran is not complicated enough, maybe you need to stop relying on bio ball mechanics every game and start mixing it up with some mech play.

third I agree with sypher, real men play zerg. they are infinitely more complex than either other race (especially protoss)

Zerg are the least complex. They have like 8 units and the only complexities involve your econ.
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I have hacks in my brain and I use them.

zerg have less standard fighting units but way more support units. protoss units generally operate themselves. zerg units have terrible combat AI and require advanced micro to be effective. zerg are so much more complicated than protoss on every level of gameplay. map control, scouting, etc

even just use scouting as an example
"hmm im protoss and I want to scout. Oh great, I have a cheap invisible flying unit! or a fast moving ship that I can also use offensively that I was probably going to build anyway because it kills all of his scouting capabilities for the entire game! Also I can chrono boost this and build it almost instantly."

zerg- "i need to figure out when I can afford to spend 100 minerals early in the game to sacrifice a very slow moving object that also doubles as 8 food to figure out what my opponent is doing. I also need to hide this near his base at the beginning of the game so that it gets there in time. If he kills this at any point in the game before it is able to scout, I will probably lose. I will need to rebuild this unit and tie up a larvae, and it has a long build time. I also need to time this for when he is committing to a strategy so that I have time to react to it."

I don't even need to mention terran, they pretty much have map hacks enabled.

toss have some of the worst scouting. They need two tech buildings to get a unit that is scout worthy. The observer is very very slow and is expensive. You call it cheap but 100 gas is a lot. If I had the option to scout an opponents base for 100 minerals I probably would. Zerg also have cheap ass fast units like zergling to take over the watch towers or just scout paths.

Toss have no attacking unit that can take over a watch tower.
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I have hacks in my brain and I use them.

I'm just saying that protoss are a boring race to play. I think half the reason I stopped playing random was because I groaned every time I drew protoss, even though I probably had the highest win percentage with them. Then I hear all these exclusive protoss users start complaining that the game is stale/boring. I can understand it if you just simply enjoy protoss and have no interest in the other races as your preference. But to generalize the game on your experience of one of three completely different races (Which also happens to be widely considered a simplistic race compared to the other two) is like going into a huge night club and as soon as you walk in the door you see a fat chick and say "this place is terrible" when there are hundreds of hot women all over the place.

also back on topic.. I have decided that I am going to start cheesing my way to the top of the ladder just to see how far it will take me.

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Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
toss have some of the worst scouting. They need two tech buildings to get a unit that is scout worthy. The observer is very very slow and is expensive. You call it cheap but 100 gas is a lot. If I had the option to scout an opponents base for 100 minerals I probably would. Zerg also have cheap ass fast units like zergling to take over the watch towers or just scout paths.

Toss have no attacking unit that can take over a watch tower.

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Agree with most of what Messiah said, protoss scouting is certainly not easy, obs are very expensive and take a lot of time to make, and are very easy to snipe (especially as terran obviously). Having to make a robo every game for scouting is a restriction, not an advantage.


With the other comments, sure it's repetitive to do the most standard "safe" build every game vs every matchup, but plenty of top competitive players have proven that their own styles and deviating from the same shit can be just as effective, TLO is an excellent example. You can pretty much make anything work as long as it's strategically sound, and plenty of people have. If you're losing doing different things and think it's because the game requires you to only play "standard", you have nothing to blame apart from your own lack of execution and game understanding.

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Originally posted by Mez
Agree with most of what Messiah said, protoss scouting is certainly not easy, obs are very expensive and take a lot of time to make, and are very easy to snipe (especially as terran obviously). Having to make a robo every game for scouting is a restriction, not an advantage.

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[quote="Sypher"]

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Originally posted by Mez

If getting a cloaked overlord meant building a 200/100 tech structure, I would do it every fucking game.. even if it was on the opposite side of the tech tree than what my strat calls for.

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Originally posted by BanMe
Changelings are pretty much better than observers, and you can keep replenishing them for nothing from a unit that has many other benefits as well. Such crying.

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yeah wtf

IMO changlings need to be nerfed
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changlings are fine, but it cant be hard to spot if your balling up your units. Has for doing well on the ladder 1348 Rank 2 diamond 179-141, I think thats good but its hard to tell I guess.
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Anti-Jabroni

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Originally posted by DrunkeN
Has for doing well on the ladder 1348 Rank 2 diamond 179-141, I think thats good but its hard to tell I guess.

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Originally posted by Sypher

This must be some sort of joke. Any player who is half paying attention will kill a changeling before it gets any useful information.

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changelings require deception and time to use effectively. And after that, they only last a minute or so. overseers do own though but they're a hard unit to use effectively (going back to my point that zerg are the most advanced race)

also in terms of terran scans, they are basically like throwing away 100 minerals (considering the supply depot drop, counting 300 for a mule isn't really accurate)

Counting 300 for a scan is more accurate than counting 100. The thing about zerg is they have some of the best overall map vision. They always know when the enemy is moving out cheaply. They know when expos are being taken cheaply.

Toss really cannot scout with their attacking units because they are weak on their own and they are too expensive to lose. Each unit also accounts for a good portion of toss's army. You cannot afford to have them out of play.

I think zerg scouting complaints are quite lame especially when you factor in creep tumors.
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I have hacks in my brain and I use them.

With zerg, you have to make sure your overlords are adequately hidden, but near the oponents base in order to properly scout, if they are far away, it takes minutes to get there. And if they build air and scout around, they pop a bunch of your farms.

Creep tumors do provide good vision, but you are now bringing in multiple other things zergs have to do: spread out OLs properly, spread creep rapidly, in addition to running lings around. This is all in addition to macroing and having a proper army composition

Zerg has the same main base scouting problems every race has. However, their overall map vision is much better than the other races.

If you want to make 'zerg is the hardest' claims you got to make them in the right spots. You can claim they have the hardest economy to master. You can claim they require the most apm of any race. You can claim they require the tighest builds of any race because their economy is maximized when they have the bare minimum defense.

I think Zerg is the hardest race right now because of balance issues but certainly not because their scouting is inferior to the other races.
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I have hacks in my brain and I use them.