I've been watching a few pro replays lately and I'm noticing that the successful zerg players in this matchup are using infestors/banelings effectively. I've watched a few recent tournament games where the terran armies are getting completely raped by infestors/lings/blings/ultras. Roaches/Hydras seem to be used sparingly to counter hellions/banshees. broodlords seem to be more of a counter to heavy tank builds. Early harass by terran doesn't seem to be that effective if you counter it correctly.

Every time I watch a zerg player win, it's because they have 2 or 3 infestors out controlling the terran army. Every time I see a zerg player lose and bitch about imba, it's because they just go retard macro and think it's going to stop the terran death ball coming their way.

Anyway I still think zerg are useless vs terran at lower levels because they require effective countering and spell casting/micro to be effective. But it seems like if you play them right, you're pretty much at the advantage.

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Originally posted by turtleman@can
I've been watching a few pro replays lately and I'm noticing that the successful zerg players in this matchup are using infestors/banelings effectively. I've watched a few recent tournament games where the terran armies are getting completely raped by infestors/lings/blings/ultras. Roaches/Hydras seem to be used sparingly to counter hellions/banshees. broodlords seem to be more of a counter to heavy tank builds. Early harass by terran doesn't seem to be that effective if you counter it correctly.

Every time I watch a zerg player win, it's because they have 2 or 3 infestors out controlling the terran army. Every time I see a zerg player lose and bitch about imba, it's because they just go retard macro and think it's going to stop the terran death ball coming their way.

Anyway I still think zerg are useless vs terran at lower levels because they require effective countering and spell casting/micro to be effective. But it seems like if you play them right, you're pretty much at the advantage.

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Kinda what kith said.

Zerg has no definite way to stop early game pressure from terran. They can go fast reaper, 3 rax reaper, hellion, etc. Every game, zerg has to prepare for these openings without definite knowledge.

Ontop of that, terran can transition smoothly into pretty much anything. Banshee, Tank, Bio, etc. Meanwhile, Zerg is struggling to recover from the early game pressure.

There are also not very many *good* terran players. If a player of testers ability played terran, he would completely dominate TvZ 99 games out of 100.
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"I tend to thougoughly enjoy my encounters significantly more with 120+ types, as I find them more stimulating. 100-110 people are okay too operating at full capacity." - Paper_Boy

It is really bullshit how terran have like the most units and they call pull any of them out with like no tech tree.
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I have hacks in my brain and I use them.

Yeah, I can see that argument that zerg don't have many options early but I don't know if I agree with them being too slowed if they counter effectively. Going back to these replays I was watching, they all involved some form of early harass by the terran player. I think that zerg are a bit more unexplored than the other two races because right now hardly anybody plays them.

I thought it was interesting that blizzard addressed the balance issue by stating that 10 of the top 20 korean players play zerg. the #2 player in the world right now plays zerg. (slush)

I think terran's probably the coolest RTS race I've seen. The variety of units and abilities make them fun as hell to play. Zerg and protoss definitely feel like they weren't given as much love. I think that the expansions will probably flesh out the two other races.

I wonder if using overlords to drop banelings into a terran army during a fight would be effective.

They could drop on the tanks and into the MMM ball as your zerglings are surrounding and mutas are harassing.

Would require a ton of micro, but at least your banelings won't get splashed to death by tanks then.

Sort of like how Toss use to do zealot drops into large groups of tanks to make them kill each other.

yeah I guess they detonate on impact. So it would probably be effective to hit a sieged up group of tanks. I think in a big fight, it would be hit or miss. They only drop out one at a time and overlords are easily sniped. The other thing is tanks are smart in sc2. They won't all shoot at the same time like in bw and I don't even think they would shoot at all if you dropped the baneling right on it.

i once had like 7 roaches burrowed under some tanks and they died instantly not killing any tank at all.

I feel like queens should be able to cast several spawn larvas and mutas should be buffed.
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GreenHorn: Nexus cried every time I beat him but still thought he was better.

I find roaches are pretty terrible against tanks in general. They're like mini tanks that do 1/10th the damage. a handful of lings would have done a better job..

I wouldn't mind that queen larvae idea, it'd make life easier..
I dunno about buffing mutas though, they are pretty bad ass right now

If I could change something, I would do something different with roaches.. Give them some other upgrades or abilities. I think the whole burrow thing is lame. I'd rather see them with some poison ability that does damage over time or put them up to 3 food and jack up their HP/Armor and turn them into something that can actually soak up damage.

if you did that, you'd have to make them a tier 2 unit

nm about mutas.
just lost to zerglings/mutas when I was terran and we had mined the same.

I love using zerglings/mutas aswell against another Zerg. roaches/hydras gets owned.
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GreenHorn: Nexus cried every time I beat him but still thought he was better.

What unit is best for toss against ultras? When zergs get a few ultras I fall pretty fast. Give me something logical because void rays when he has another army behind him doesn't cut it.
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I have hacks in my brain and I use them.

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Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
What unit is best for toss against ultras? When zergs get a few ultras I fall pretty fast. Give me something logical because void rays when he has another army behind him doesn't cut it.

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Originally posted by Sypher

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Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
What unit is best for toss against ultras? When zergs get a few ultras I fall pretty fast. Give me something logical because void rays when he has another army behind him doesn't cut it.

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Immortal/stalker/collosus and don't fight on creep.

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The only thing stalkers are good for is anti-air and that is only because toss have no good AA. I'm starting to think of the stalker like a sentry. Basically only a support unit.

Do immortals only take 10 damages from ultras? Can ultras attack a bunch of zealots at the same time?

Generally I win against zerg mid game with either some sort of 4 gate or I over run him with a dual. If the game reaches the stages where he can get ultras I lose.
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I also haven't figure out the most cost effective way to take out thors. I got thor raped a few times where they have a shit load of marines surrounding a thor. The thor can attack shit from like half way across the map and if you try to kill the thor they repair it. Immortals melt to the marines. I'm guessing the only way is not to engage till you have storm to wipe out his rines but that is pretty late and the rush comes earlier.

I've had mass speed zealots with immortals get run over by the rine thor combination. In theory I thought that unit composition would counter his. I also tried voids which I thought were supposed to be good against thors but that isn't the case when he is repairing and can attack you from the other side of the map.
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I have hacks in my brain and I use them.

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Originally posted by BanMe

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Originally posted by Sypher

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Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
What unit is best for toss against ultras? When zergs get a few ultras I fall pretty fast. Give me something logical because void rays when he has another army behind him doesn't cut it.

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Immortal/stalker/collosus and don't fight on creep.

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stalkers are god awful against ultras, immortal's only cost effective counter

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Originally posted by Sypher

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Originally posted by BanMe

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Originally posted by Sypher

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Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
What unit is best for toss against ultras? When zergs get a few ultras I fall pretty fast. Give me something logical because void rays when he has another army behind him doesn't cut it.

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Immortal/stalker/collosus and don't fight on creep.

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stalkers are god awful against ultras, immortal's only cost effective counter

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If you have blink and are fighting off creep, it is pretty easy to kite the ultras. People do it vs me all the time.

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Originally posted by BanMe
You shouldn't be engaging in a position to be kited - that should only work in smaller numbers (and with minimal unit composition). Unless they have nothing but stalkers, your ultra's should catch up with something to wreck - and they'll wreck anything that isn't an immortal or perhaps an archon. Ultra hydra - at a near maxed capacity - rapes pretty hard.

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Buffing mutas would help z v t but it would imbalance z v p

Protoss have alot harder time dealing with mutas then terran imo

I think archons kinda rape ultralisks. If they're going lings/ultras mainly then archons are a no brainer.

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Originally posted by Kyr.Luoson
Buffing mutas would help z v t but it would imbalance z v p

Protoss have alot harder time dealing with mutas then terran imo

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As toss I have big problems with anti-air. Stalkers are pathetic and phoenixes and voids aren't aren't good AA in most situations. I get contained pretty hard by zerg mutas and the invisible terran flying tanks are a fucking joke.

They cannot buff mutas without buffing toss AA. Better solution is to make turrets and thors slightly weaker against light air.
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LoL, i don't really see what all the cryings about, zerg have limited openings? Are you kidding me? maybe against protoss but to me Z V T, Zerg are pretty much the better race if played properly. I used to find ppl who used them were god aweful, but now damn, they're tough.
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Originally posted by Shotgun_
LoL, i don't really see what all the cryings about, zerg have limited openings? Are you kidding me? maybe against protoss but to me Z V T, Zerg are pretty much the better race if played properly. I used to find ppl who used them were god aweful, but now damn, they're tough.

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Originally posted by Aerasal

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Originally posted by Shotgun_
LoL, i don't really see what all the cryings about, zerg have limited openings? Are you kidding me? maybe against protoss but to me Z V T, Zerg are pretty much the better race if played properly. I used to find ppl who used them were god aweful, but now damn, they're tough.

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people a lot better than you disagree

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Originally posted by Shotgun_

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Originally posted by Aerasal

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Originally posted by Shotgun_
LoL, i don't really see what all the cryings about, zerg have limited openings? Are you kidding me? maybe against protoss but to me Z V T, Zerg are pretty much the better race if played properly. I used to find ppl who used them were god aweful, but now damn, they're tough.

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people a lot better than you disagree

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not lately, we are talking about T VS Z here not zerg as a race, noob.

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Originally posted by Aerasal

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Originally posted by Shotgun_

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Originally posted by Aerasal

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Originally posted by Shotgun_
LoL, i don't really see what all the cryings about, zerg have limited openings? Are you kidding me? maybe against protoss but to me Z V T, Zerg are pretty much the better race if played properly. I used to find ppl who used them were god aweful, but now damn, they're tough.

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people a lot better than you disagree

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not lately, we are talking about T VS Z here not zerg as a race, noob.

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of course we are... the thread is titled tvz matchup and most of the recent complaints have been about the tvz matchup... gone retard lately?

look what sypher quoted in the other thread, some of the best sc2 players in the world have been speaking out about mostly tvz but also zvp (2 gate vs z according to idra)

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Originally posted by Shotgun_

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Originally posted by Aerasal

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Originally posted by Shotgun_

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Originally posted by Aerasal

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Originally posted by Shotgun_
LoL, i don't really see what all the cryings about, zerg have limited openings? Are you kidding me? maybe against protoss but to me Z V T, Zerg are pretty much the better race if played properly. I used to find ppl who used them were god aweful, but now damn, they're tough.

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people a lot better than you disagree

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not lately, we are talking about T VS Z here not zerg as a race, noob.

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of course we are... the thread is titled tvz matchup and most of the recent complaints have been about the tvz matchup... gone retard lately?

look what sypher quoted in the other thread, some of the best sc2 players in the world have been speaking out about mostly tvz but also zvp (2 gate vs z according to idra)

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maybe u should play the game, and get your own opinions

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