Terran have strong early attacks with units that tear down toss defenses. Collosi can deal with it but they take a while to get. I want to tech to templars but that tech tree is very expensive and time consuming. There is a huge window of attack here before toss can reap any rewards from the tech investment. EMP is brutal and super easy to get. Teching to templars I was having mild success by using the cheaper voids in place of collosi. The defense is fragile though.
_________________
I have hacks in my brain and I use them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aerasal

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kith-Kanin
Overseer contaminate could be basically amazing. You get enough overseers and you can completely shutdown production. Almost seems like it could be borderline broken if used by a pro.

---

uh, what? how often did that happen when corruptors had the same ability and cost less gas?

---

i think you have no choice but to outmacro a terran in PvT, timing pushes are generally useless against a terran on 1 walled in base
timing pushes though, can be great against a terran that takes a fast expo. but terran is becoming the 1 base power race for sure

the other reason people havent mentioned that make terran difficult to beat as protoss is that you have to be wary of reaper harass every single game , because ur scout is going to see a tech lab going up pretty much every single game, whether hes going maruader or reaper you may not always be able to scout and if you dont have a stalker at least in production when the reaper comes, you lose.

i've been tinkering with turtle strat sitting on main+natural into carrier/mama against terran, since i dont have a ton of faith in the gateway units (exception being high temps in a ghost-free game) in PvT.

the notion that you have to have colossi or ht's to defend before expanding is simply wrong and is probably why you're having trouble with the matchup

i was having this problem when i first started playing but with a little more experience i just make it happen

collosus are mad overrated, especially in PvT, because of vikings and stim allows their MMM ball to run away better (or run in range of the collosus to take it down)

quote:

---

Originally posted by ~Dakine..HeX
collosus are mad overrated, especially in PvT, because of vikings and stim allows their MMM ball to run away better (or run in range of the collosus to take it down)

---

patch is now downloading for me

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scrubbolator

quote:

---

Originally posted by ~Dakine..HeX
collosus are mad overrated, especially in PvT, because of vikings and stim allows their MMM ball to run away better (or run in range of the collosus to take it down)

---

that's where micro comes in. vikings are the only big problem here and if he has a lot of vikings then ht's are better. i've been using colossi in pvt with great success

---

you don't need cliffs, you have range 9 vs marauders range 6. if they try to target the colossi you pull back and all your units hit theirs while they're moving. plus you can move shoot with colossi while moving back as well

not to mention you should have a few sentries for forcefields

with all this your colossi will not get hit by infantry in large battles

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scrubbolator
you don't need cliffs, you have range 9 vs marauders range 6. if they try to target the colossi you pull back and all your units hit theirs while they're moving. plus you can move shoot with colossi while moving back as well

not to mention you should have a few sentries for forcefields

with all this your colossi will not get hit by infantry in large battles

---

yeah if bioball is killing your colossus on a regular basis work on your micro for real
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

generally toss i think is supposed to be the most micro-heavy race so i don't have a problem with that in and of itself. however terran is way too easy to just attack move and win with and blizzard keeps making it easier to win by just spamming "t"
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

i dont really make robotics units vs terran, i mostly stick to blink micro and psi storm

and maybe some various warp/drops

and i turtle on 2 bases and make carriers sometimes

d/l'ed the patch but b.net is still down it seems

i usually prefer templar too but robotics can be good as well

carriers are bad idea dont do it
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

carriers have a nice inflection point though, 1-4 carriers aren't really that good, but somewhere in the 5-7 carrier range they get bananas.

its kind of a cheesy all-in move though to carrier rush, but meh im not above that

man i can't even remember the last time i made a carrier. something to note about them though if you like using them is that you no longer have to make interceptors manually like in sc1. you can right click the icon to set it to autocast

you should try carriers against marauder heavy builds, its pretty good. of course you have to hide the fleet beacon (and the stargates too). and the carrier upgrade is also very good (I would say it is as necessary as the thermal lance upgrade)

somewhere in between 5-7 carriers really, they go bananas and pop things instantly, especially marauders/marines

gotta hide that shit though, and also have to harass to keep them off the scent. blink harass is what I usually do, since blink is broken as fuck best skill in the game for sure.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scrubbolator
man i can't even remember the last time i made a carrier. something to note about them though if you like using them is that you no longer have to make interceptors manually like in sc1. you can right click the icon to set it to autocast

---

You got to love the condescending tips. The meta game isn't anywhere near being understood. Yet there is no lack Swift comments(I am better therefore any idiotic thing I say is true).
_________________
I have hacks in my brain and I use them.

what was so condescending about that? he just said he's never made carriers and you can auto build interceptors, which a lot of people probably don't know because no one builds carriers because they suck
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
what was so condescending about that? he just said he's never made carriers and you can auto build interceptors, which a lot of people probably don't know because no one builds carriers because they suck

---

*shrug* i'm just saying they don't seem effective from everything i've seen
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

the upgrade is crucial, and the critical mass inflection point is crucial. and hiding them for as long as you can is crucial.

get the upgrade and get like 6 carriers (along with a smattering of warpgate units) and move out, devastation ensues

also the fleet beacon has the bomb upgrades for void rays/obs/warp priz

obs and warp gate upgrades are robo bay

i mean i agree at 6-7 carriers you're going to rape, it just seems like if you can successfully make 6-7 carriers you've already won the game through macro anyway
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
obs and warp gate upgrades are robo bay

---

It is not clear to me that carriers suck or that no strategy involving them could work.
carriers can take a lot of damage and naturally fit in with a mother ship.
_________________
I have hacks in my brain and I use them.

the best thing about carriers is that the micro is really easy, you have only a handful of them, and they can fly (though very slowly) so when one gets focused down you just tell him to run away a little bit. They have enough HP/shield that flying a little back is usually pretty effective, especially since you still have the interceptors from that guy (and the other carriers) raping faces

quote:

---

Originally posted by ~Dakine..HeX
whoops, and by warp gate of course u mean warp priz

and to your other point, which has a lot of truth, i would counter by saying that 6 carriers is much more GG than 6 battle cruisers or 6 broodlords or 6 ultralisks or 6 whatever

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah

quote:

---

Originally posted by ~Dakine..HeX
whoops, and by warp gate of course u mean warp priz

and to your other point, which has a lot of truth, i would counter by saying that 6 carriers is much more GG than 6 battle cruisers or 6 broodlords or 6 ultralisks or 6 whatever

---

yeah i meant warp prism

and for the record the only time someone made carriers against me in a plat level game (and he had a lot) i beat them with blink stalkers, since the time he was turtling carriers i took the whole map. and i'd much rather than 6 broodlords than 6 carriers, brood lords are the most gg unit in the game imo

---