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WarMaN_WH
Joined: 05 Jul 2001
Posts: 1681
Location: Kansas City, MO |
quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
quote:
Originally posted by stoned@chayliss
certain things make me freeze for 3-5 sec when u click on something or use somthing havent figured out which things do it
think im going to play protoss
Protoss are very natural to use after playing war2. Still, I think they are the weakest race right now. I'm thinking of learning terran or Zerg.
ya rofl toss are not even close to the weakest.
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Sun May 16, 2010 7:19 pm |
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BanMe
Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 2472
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I dunno i think toss actually are the weakest. Cost for cost just about every one of their units is trumped by equivelent tech by other races. Toss require superior tactics to win due to their "weak" units. However, their simplistic UI makes this possible. Still, if I had to pick one, I would say Toss are weakest. If you "rofl" disagree, then say which other race is.
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Kanuks - The fact is you and foonew tried a double gay on me and ended up being BOTH behind me. Enough fucking said.
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Sun May 16, 2010 7:27 pm |
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WarMaN_WH
Joined: 05 Jul 2001
Posts: 1681
Location: Kansas City, MO |
quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
I dunno i think toss actually are the weakest. Cost for cost just about every one of their units is trumped by equivelent tech by other races. Toss require superior tactics to win due to their "weak" units. However, their simplistic UI makes this possible. Still, if I had to pick one, I would say Toss are weakest. If you "rofl" disagree, then say which other race is.
lol that's incredibly funny
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Sun May 16, 2010 7:37 pm |
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Kyr.Luoson
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 1696
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nah ash is right, at top level anyway.. i think lower levels protoss would win more
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Sun May 16, 2010 7:52 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
I dunno i think toss actually are the weakest. Cost for cost just about every one of their units is trumped by equivelent tech by other races. Toss require superior tactics to win due to their "weak" units.
that's kind of meaningless, anyone who thinks x race is the weakest could say the exact same thing
the idea that every "equivalent" unit (which itself is kind of a dumb concept, a lot of the units in the game don't have "equivalents" across races) of another race beats the toss unit is also flat out wrong. there's balance issues in the game for sure but i think it's really dumb at this point to say any one race is the "weakest." terran might be the strongest, but if they are i don't think its by a large margin
iirc blizzard's own stats have toss winning most of the race matchups on the NA servers
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Sun May 16, 2010 8:37 pm |
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Sypher
Joined: 18 Sep 2000
Posts: 5698
Location: Detroit, MI |
I like to think of protoss as the glass cannon race.
They got very expensive units that can dish out a fuck ton of dmg but are extremely vulnerable(immo/collosus/voidray). It really depends on how you use the units.
A good unit mixture of toss units is hard as fuck to stop as zerg.
_________________
"I tend to thougoughly enjoy my encounters significantly more with 120+ types, as I find them more stimulating. 100-110 people are okay too operating at full capacity." - Paper_Boy
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Sun May 16, 2010 8:46 pm |
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Kith-Kanin
Joined: 15 Sep 2000
Posts: 4449
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I think one of the biggest things that kind of fucks over toss and makes them somewhat, if any, weaker than other races is the fact that collosus can be hit by air. I understand why they have it that way, because they are sooo strong, but they're countered too easily by air. They should take reduced damage from air, like 50% reduced damage.
Sure, you can make phoenixes and stalkers to try and stop it, but most people will just suicide their air units to take out your collosus and then they mop up your ground force with either MMM or hydra/ling.
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Sun May 16, 2010 10:59 pm |
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BanMe
Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 2472
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Kind of a dumb argument to be having, anyway, but just to defend my statement i didn't say "equivalent units" but rather equivalent tech. Also I meant to say toss is weak in a general sense of the units feeling weak compared to other races, not that the race itself is necessarily at a disadvantage.
I just feel this way because in a straight up fight with minimal micro (at least at a high level), standard ground toss units (i.e. gateway units + immortals) typically get raped by other races standard ground units, i.e. stimmed MMM, or roach / hydra. Toss pretty much need tier 3 (colossus) if you're talking about a hi food count army, pure tier 1-2 wont work for toss like it will for other races. This need for tier 3 along with needing exceptional positioning and unit control to win in big fights - because otherwise standard toss ground army's melt to equivelent tech in a straight up fight - is why I made my statement about them being the "weak" race, if there is to be any race to be called weak.
Again it's kind of a silly thing to argue over , and it's especially worthless to dispute it while not giving a counter example, i.e. what other race is weaker and why.
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Kanuks - The fact is you and foonew tried a double gay on me and ended up being BOTH behind me. Enough fucking said.
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Sun May 16, 2010 11:49 pm |
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7VlesSiah
Joined: 16 Feb 2001
Posts: 2456
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quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
Kind of a dumb argument to be having, anyway, but just to defend my statement i didn't say "equivalent units" but rather equivalent tech. Also I meant to say toss is weak in a general sense of the units feeling weak compared to other races, not that the race itself is necessarily at a disadvantage.
I just feel this way because in a straight up fight with minimal micro (at least at a high level), standard ground toss units (i.e. gateway units + immortals) typically get raped by other races standard ground units, i.e. stimmed MMM, or roach / hydra. Toss pretty much need tier 3 (colossus) if you're talking about a hi food count army, pure tier 1-2 wont work for toss like it will for other races. This need for tier 3 along with needing exceptional positioning and unit control to win in big fights - because otherwise standard toss ground army's melt to equivelent tech in a straight up fight - is why I made my statement about them being the "weak" race, if there is to be any race to be called weak.
Again it's kind of a silly thing to argue over , and it's especially worthless to dispute it while not giving a counter example, i.e. what other race is weaker and why.
That is basically my feeling on it. Toss army will just melt away without the tier 3 units. The tier 3 units are also very susceptible to attack and all toss units are expensive to buy. The number of times I've had like double the res of the other guy and lost is sad. Toss can win with good timing pushes and strategy.
Watching Idra vs TheLittleOne kind of showed toss getting raped by zerg. The races are definitely close to equal but there are some glaring weaknesses in protoss(imo).
_________________
I have hacks in my brain and I use them.
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Mon May 17, 2010 2:32 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
I just feel this way because in a straight up fight with minimal micro (at least at a high level), standard ground toss units (i.e. gateway units + immortals) typically get raped by other races standard ground units, i.e. stimmed MMM, or roach / hydra.
why would you use minimal micro? toss is the most micro heavy race. right now some races don't take as much micro as they should (terran) but even ideally toss is going to be the most micro heavy just because they have so many abilities and so many expensive units you're going to want to keep alive. it's kind of like saying zerg is the weakest because they're more dependent on their macro mechanic than any other race, it's just the nature of the race and the way you have to play it
quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
Again it's kind of a silly thing to argue over , and it's especially worthless to dispute it while not giving a counter example, i.e. what other race is weaker and why.
what if you don't think there's a "weakest" race? again, toss has a slight edge in all race matchups on most of the servers, but only a very slight edge, they're all extremely close to each other
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Mon May 17, 2010 6:51 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by Kith-Kanin
I think one of the biggest things that kind of fucks over toss and makes them somewhat, if any, weaker than other races is the fact that collosus can be hit by air. I understand why they have it that way, because they are sooo strong, but they're countered too easily by air. They should take reduced damage from air, like 50% reduced damage.
toss have other units besides colossus and even this isn't a problem with colossus if you have the range upgrade and good micro. but if you're really that scared of them getting air go templar instead of colossus. HT's are really underrated
quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
The number of times I've had like double the res of the other guy and lost is sad.
that's not the game's fault
quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
Watching Idra vs TheLittleOne kind of showed toss getting raped by zerg. The races are definitely close to equal but there are some glaring weaknesses in protoss(imo).
i assume you're talking about idra vs nony yesterday. for one thing idra is a really good player, for another thing imo nony did not play those games as well as he could have. in all three games (the latter two especially) he let idra expand completely unmolested. second game he didn't do any sort of harassment or attack until phoenix tech, third game he tried to expand and out-macro zerg which is always a recipe for disaster. nony is a great player but so is idra and the dude simply got outplayed. look at the previous round where nony raped moonglade silly, omg obviously zerg is weak as hell!!!
go to day9's stream and watch whitera's games vs sen. he lost the series (game 4 to a scout fail, game 5 to a wall fail) but his opening game vs zerg is much better than nony's and the games he lost were much, much closer and totally winnable, unlike nony who got tooled all game every game
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Mon May 17, 2010 6:59 am |
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WarMaN_WH
Joined: 05 Jul 2001
Posts: 1681
Location: Kansas City, MO |
quote:
Originally posted by Kith-Kanin
I think one of the biggest things that kind of fucks over toss and makes them somewhat, if any, weaker than other races is the fact that collosus can be hit by air. I understand why they have it that way, because they are sooo strong, but they're countered too easily by air. They should take reduced damage from air, like 50% reduced damage.
Sure, you can make phoenixes and stalkers to try and stop it, but most people will just suicide their air units to take out your collosus and then they mop up your ground force with either MMM or hydra/ling.
lol corrupters are the only way zerg can counter collossus and after that they're useless
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Mon May 17, 2010 9:50 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by WarMaN_WH
lol corrupters are the only way zerg can counter collossus and after that they're useless
lol no
flank, stop attack moving. mutas. infestors. anything but attack moving into a colossus backed army
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Mon May 17, 2010 9:54 am |
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WarMaN_WH
Joined: 05 Jul 2001
Posts: 1681
Location: Kansas City, MO |
Lol mutas get destroyed to easy and are only useful in masses. Corrupters atleast can go brood lords if the game lasts long enough.
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Mon May 17, 2010 11:24 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by WarMaN_WH
Lol mutas get destroyed to easy and are only useful in masses.
wtf, no. quit making your mutas just stand there like dumbasses
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Mon May 17, 2010 11:26 am |
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7VlesSiah
Joined: 16 Feb 2001
Posts: 2456
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Actually I was refering to games 1 and 2 of TLO vs Idra where Idra got man handled by zerg. He then won the next 3 games when TLO spawned as toss.
This is also very funny. These are opinions that have been backed up with reasons. There has been no counter argument saying which race is the weakest. The reasons given are valid as well. Biggest problem with Toss are that stalkers are shit and that is the tier 1 range unit for toss.
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I have hacks in my brain and I use them.
Last edited by 7VlesSiah on Mon May 17, 2010 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mon May 17, 2010 11:36 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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that was TLO vs whitera
and that's mostly because TLO is probably a better zerg player than a toss player and also because whitera is pretty much a better player than TLO in every way
like i said check out the sen vs whitera games on the day9 stream. sen's a great zerg player and only came out 3-2. the ra losses were totally preventable and had nothing to do with toss being weak
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Mon May 17, 2010 11:42 am |
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Sypher
Joined: 18 Sep 2000
Posts: 5698
Location: Detroit, MI |
quote:
Originally posted by WarMaN_WH
lol corrupters are the only way zerg can counter collossus and after that they're useless
"fuck guys, i keep losing games when I attack move!! THIS GAME IS TOO HARD!"
_________________
"I tend to thougoughly enjoy my encounters significantly more with 120+ types, as I find them more stimulating. 100-110 people are okay too operating at full capacity." - Paper_Boy
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Mon May 17, 2010 11:46 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
This is also very funny. These are opinions that have been backed up with reasons. There has been no counter argument saying which race is the weakest.
again what if you don't think there's a "weakest" race? there doesn't have to be a weakest race. if you go by stats then maybe one race is slightly by .05% loss percentage the weakest but thats not really significant. if you do want to go by that though, since it's the only objective measure, by the numbers toss ISN'T the weakest. so there
btw here's a counterargument: zerg is the weakest because they're more dependent on their macro mechanic than any other race and ultras are too weak. terran is the weakest because mule and scan are on the same building and their infantry requires a ton of upgrades to be effective. both of these statements are retarded reasoning but so is the reasoning that toss is weak because "it takes more micro and colossus can get hit by air" or whatever the fuck
quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
The reasons given are valid as well. Biggest problem with Toss are that stalkers are shit and that is the tier 1 range unit for toss.
that's not really a huge problem at tier 1 because stalkers beat all other tier 1 ranged except marauders?
its also funny to me, as a toss player, that the only people on here saying toss is the weakest are other toss players
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Mon May 17, 2010 11:51 am |
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7VlesSiah
Joined: 16 Feb 2001
Posts: 2456
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mass hydras pwn stalkers. They can mass them so easily. MM own stalkers. Even roaches will own stalkers.
_________________
I have hacks in my brain and I use them.
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Mon May 17, 2010 12:33 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
mass hydras pwn stalkers.
hydra are tier 2
quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
MM own stalkers.
its not very surprising that a mixed army will beat a one unit army
quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
Even roaches will own stalkers.
lol no
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Mon May 17, 2010 12:35 pm |
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Scrubbolator
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 1303
Location: Greece |
hydras and marauders are both more specialized than stalkers
hydras are tier 2 and light whereas stalkers do bonus to armored
marauders only attack ground
stalkers aren't supposed to beat either
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Mon May 17, 2010 12:39 pm |
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7VlesSiah
Joined: 16 Feb 2001
Posts: 2456
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quote:
Originally posted by Scrubbolator
hydras and marauders are both more specialized than stalkers
hydras are tier 2 and light whereas stalkers do bonus to armored
marauders only attack ground
stalkers aren't supposed to beat either
Hence Toss tier 1 gets ripped apart by every other race. Apparently their were meant to.
_________________
I have hacks in my brain and I use them.
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Mon May 17, 2010 12:43 pm |
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Scrubbolator
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 1303
Location: Greece |
toss' tier 1 does fine vs any other race's tier1. in fact the 4warpgate push is pretty popular amongst the newer players because it's a tier1 strategy that's easy to execute and is pretty strong against most things
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Mon May 17, 2010 12:46 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
Hence Toss tier 1 gets ripped apart by every other race. Apparently their were meant to.
i win with tier 1 all the time, especially against zerg. try to play better instead of blaming all your losses on imbalance
i don't know how anyone can say toss tier 1 is awful when toss have fucking sentries, do you never use force field or something?
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Mon May 17, 2010 12:48 pm |
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7VlesSiah
Joined: 16 Feb 2001
Posts: 2456
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You both are talking about timing hits. Once zerg has got his tech the difference becomes apparent. I said from the start, toss can do some good timing attacks.
_________________
I have hacks in my brain and I use them.
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Mon May 17, 2010 12:55 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
You both are talking about timing hits. Once zerg has got his tech the difference becomes apparent.
so why didn't you tech too? if you got in a good timing attack on the zerg and didn't kill him outright you should do enough damage to tech up/expand yourself
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Mon May 17, 2010 12:58 pm |
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Scrubbolator
Joined: 21 Sep 2001
Posts: 1303
Location: Greece |
you sound just like most zerg players do when they say roaches are useless once the protoss gets immortals and zerglings are useless past early game
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Mon May 17, 2010 1:00 pm |
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WarMaN_WH
Joined: 05 Jul 2001
Posts: 1681
Location: Kansas City, MO |
quote:
Originally posted by Sypher
quote:
Originally posted by WarMaN_WH
lol corrupters are the only way zerg can counter collossus and after that they're useless
"fuck guys, i keep losing games when I attack move!! THIS GAME IS TOO HARD!"
k lol lets setup a game and i'll be toss and you zerg. You can't use corrupters against my collossus. Then you can watch me mow your shit down
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Mon May 17, 2010 4:50 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by WarMaN_WH
k lol lets setup a game and i'll be toss and you zerg. You can't use corrupters against my collossus. Then you can watch me mow your shit down
ahahahahhahahaha sypher if you take him up on this then please let me watch
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Mon May 17, 2010 5:08 pm |
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