what 'toss unit combinations counter mass hydras? Funny thing about stalkers is they get pwned by like every range unit. They are so costly. Timing pushes with immortals have worked well for me but when they get mass hydras my units generally get target fired and melt away. Air also seems to blow against zerg. I sometimes try to hit them with a void if they go roaches but they can tech to hydas pretty fast at which point my shipyard and void are wasted res. Once zerg have lair, toss air is basically useless.
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zealots with speed will help vs hydra

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Originally posted by ~Dakine..HeX
zealots with speed will help vs hydra

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Collossi and high templar are the best counters to hydra but u need a few of em

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Originally posted by Kyr.Luoson
Collossi and high templar are the best counters to hydra but u need a few of em

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Originally posted by BanMe
They are faster than and outrange both hydra roach.

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Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

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I just died again to mass Hydras. The trouble is that zerg can expand to a 2nd mine right away and it is very hard to stop. Templars seem to take too long to get and are very costly off one base. If I try to expand to 2 bases I'm unable to defend the expo and my base. Basically Zerg dual fast and get lot of zerglings. They are using the zerglings both offensively and defensively.

This Zerg dual is very tough to crack cause they just get an insane amount of units like they cost nothing. It is not easy break against a good player. Templars really take too long to get and are far too costly. I don't get it. You got to get 2 buildings which cost a fortune and then research psi storm which costs a fortune and then buy templars which cost a fortune. Not viable off one base.
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if you see him fast expanding harass like fuck. against zerg i usually do 10 pylon 10 gate, then if i scout a FE i chronoboost a zeal as soon as the gate is done and rally to his natural. if you see a drone going down to his natural a little after he starts a late spawning pool its almost certainly going to FE. micro your probe around the hatch spot as long as you can to keep him from building his hatch. attack the hatch with your probe and zealots, keep chronoing zealots and rally them to the hatch. attack the hatch. he'll bring lings down to try and kite you away from the hatch where he can surround your zeals, take a few swings and then micro back to the hatch when they run away. keep doing this until the hatch dies or he gets too many lings for you to deal with. even if he holds you off and preserves his expo you just made him waste a shitload of money and slowed him down

following this up is tricky as there's a lot of things you can both do. if it looks like hes just making lots of lings and teching to lair fast you might want to get a second gate, which is risky but can kill him outright. if he goes roach you're going to want to tech because zealots won't do shit to them. do **NOT** neglect teching while you're attacking his natural. if you hurt him bad enough you might want to consider expanding yourself, especially if you're on a map like lost temple or blistering sands where you can wall your expo pretty easily (a lot of times versus zerg i'll build my first pylon and gate at my nat's choke instead of my ramp).

bottom line is if a zerg fast expands you either need to push him early with 4 gates or immortals or void rays and kill/cripple him outright, or you need to harass then push, or harass and then expand yourself. if you let a zerg expand unmolested, even if you expand yourself, you'll be in a world of hurt with the huge production advantage they get with spawn larva. again i'm far from the best player even on this board but when i get home i can see if i have any good pvz reps you can watch (have played less zerg lately but there should be a few)
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Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

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Depending on where he's rallying his army you can sometimes rip up his expansion using sentries to block the entrance ramp from his main or at the very least block reinforcements from there.

Also, if you do a timing push with either zeals/immortal, or stalekr/immortal (depending on whether he is massed lings or massed roaches) then you can usually take down the expansion as well.

i think stalkers counter most things decently if you commit hard to the blink micro.

collosi/high temps are obviously great vs mass hydra, but they are also high tier units that you may not be able to make at the drop of a dime when you see a hydra den.

charge zeals+sentry is a more reasonable counter to hydras in most cases, for my playstyle at least.

a lot of zergs tend to be favoring ling/hydra/infestor or just hydra/infestor, and I dont want my collosi to get mind controlled midfight.

If you make a lot of speed zeals, it forces the zerg to make roaches or mutas, if he makes roach try to transition into immortals, if he makes mutas then pump stalka/sentry. Mutas are really bad in fights, so if he is going spire, it is important to fortify your mineral lines some, since that is where mutas will make the most headway. If he tries to fight your stalker/sentry with mutas, its probably not going to work out great for him.

the biggest thing with zerg is to not get overwhelmed, you can't let him be +1 base on you the whole game, or you are going to get face rolled no matter what his army composition is.
It is also extremely important vs zerg to kill fucking creep tumors and overlords, makes their units (especially hydras!) run so goddamn fast.

well yeah, colossi/temps aren't the initial thing to do vs fast hydras because they take longer. but imo you want to work towards one or the other, supported by zealot/sentry usually

vs mutas blink stalkers with sentry are good. there was a lot of commotion about the new phoenix when those youtube micro vids first came out but honestly i haven't seen it be that bad since patch, that might be viable too though
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Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

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ive tried some phx builds, and it actually is pretty good against mutas, but only if he is massing mutas. If he switches to hydras then you have a whole bunch of useless airplanes.

buuutt if he has nothing but mutas, phx can be good. Or if you are just a lot more skilled than him, then phx can be a cute strat to harass his drones. The phx attack mechanism now requires that you commit to the micro, and for me at least, the phx micro has a lower payoff than say: psi storm micro, blink micro or forcefield micro

phx is not a unit I get frequently still, the reward for the APM chunk they require isn't worth it for me, maybe i just need more practice with them so their APM chunk is smaller

I think phx will probably get used the same way corsairs were used in SC1. They still sorta suck if you ask me. They are crap against just about everything. Any zerg who has mutas can easily transition into hydras. Phx are just too weak. As an anti air only unit, they should be stronger. That Gravity beam is a joke.
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I wonder if protoss could safely dual anytime with mass sentries.
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I just went mass sentries vs zerg. Seems very good. Wasted the minerals on zealots and photon cannons and dualed with mass sentries holding the defense. I then teched into colossi and hallucinate. The sentry force fields seem very effective against the mass units. I need to experiment more.

Mass sentry at the start generally good against zerg?
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Originally posted by ~Dakine..HeX
, and for me at least, the phx micro has a lower payoff than say: psi storm micro, blink micro or forcefield micro

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Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
I just went mass sentries vs zerg. Seems very good. Wasted the minerals on zealots and photon cannons and dualed with mass sentries holding the defense. I then teched into colossi and hallucinate. The sentry force fields seem very effective against the mass units. I need to experiment more.

Mass sentry at the start generally good against zerg?

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Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

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quote:

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Originally posted by 7VlesSiah
I just went mass sentries vs zerg. Seems very good. Wasted the minerals on zealots and photon cannons and dualed with mass sentries holding the defense. I then teched into colossi and hallucinate. The sentry force fields seem very effective against the mass units. I need to experiment more.

Mass sentry at the start generally good against zerg?

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Originally posted by Kyr.Luoson


5 Gate push

A good 1 base push vs a fast expanding zerg is 5gate push

make sure u boost the gate upgrade

make only sentrys and zealots when u push out with about 6-8 zealots and 6-8 sentrys make sure to bring a probe and build a plyon just before u hit, warp in 5 more units and keep warpin in..

Needs good mirco though, you can cut off roaches and zergling with forcefield making them useless.. Only trouble i have is if they have planted 3+ spine crawlers.. Think about breakin rocks to get into the main instead in this case if u can..


Fast Expand

Only way a protoss can fast expand vs is zerg is subject to the map

Lost temple is good because the expandsion choke can be blocked easily

What i do is 10gate zealot pressure on the zerg, then in the mean time i put up a forge+Gate+cannon blocking off the enterance to your expansion and expand make sure to leave a 1 space choke and put a zealot or 2 in there... Put all ur workers on minerals, dont get gas or a core intill ur have made ur expo/defence.. But very hard to pull off vs good players

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5 rax, sentries zealots works pretty well. Tried it out first time.
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