i like how everyone is being somewhat appropriate with this, even claw. and yes iL host ratings was an idea i had. But i also think if a player is being discriminated against and can not play for any reason they can provide proof and report it to an admin. Not to be overly sensitive but for common sense purposes, this is a dying game and we want everyone to have a good gaming experience and keep coming back. The same reason why we ban hackers. Again one game full of everyone that's on the server and you get banned is not fun. smurfing or not. Also the "hot" issues the server has been facing in the past to this day like hosting and wrongful bans etc. i will admin and be as diligent and fair as i can be. People want instant gratification if they catch someone hacking, they don't want to post on the forums and wait 4 days for the hacker/spoofer to get banned. They will stop playing until they get banned again or stop playing all together. In order for our community to prosper we need to be more diligent. and stop with all the hate. We're all war2 players. and instead of telling people what they can say, have consequences for when they are ATTACKING someone, not just using obscene language. I was given trial admin a few years ago, and i don't know why it was taken away by the council but it was. I am telling you I CAN FIX THIS GAME. i just need time and the appropriate resources.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbL6Gstg954

this occured today at 6:30 pm eastern time. Here is an example of a player being bullied. Lets see if anything will be done about it, and how long it takes.
Uh y server ded?


_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbL6Gstg954

imbesil

also that's an example of letting a newbie stay in the game and telling the newbie he's a watcher and the newbie fucking the game up.
_________________
i zero bagged your mother

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend

---

so because he missed a message that probably was visible for 10 seconds and isn't even familiar with watching in the first place it's okay for him to be treated like that?
Here are some solutions.
Someone teach him how to host a game
Don't let people watch your games.
Calmly explain to him how to watch.

Here is what not to do: Tell him off and go remake and leave him with his dick in his hand.

And remove the obscene language rule if you're not going to enforce it.

I like the double standard for Viruz.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbL6Gstg954

I don't know. They let him into the game and he fucked it up. People get mad when their games get ruined. But I know that's not a nice way to handle it but sometimes you just don't understand what these newbies are thinking. I've told them you're watching, don't build, etc like 10 times before and had them build anyway.
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i zero bagged your mother

quote:

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Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend

---

yes i understand that. but you're missing the point. We are not talking about a black or white situation were we're looking to punish someone. We have to think about the best interest for the server. If we just go around treating every pballnewb103 who doesn't know how to read unless they're being insulted like this, war2 will die completely. And if you think it's already too dead or not worth saving then step aside.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbL6Gstg954

These are still listed under "Draft rules" so I don't know if they are in effect yet but

6. To offend the dignity of others by using swear words, put-downs, and other statements against them, in any language, is prohibited, except for friendly trash talk.
This includes chat messages, the user name and game names, personal communications, mail, etc. This includes "disguised swear words" - with the substitution of letters, etc., for offensive purposes.
The purpose of this rule is to protect new and casual players from being offended.
Penalties: warning for the first time, 1 day ban for second offense, 1 week ban for the third offense, permanent ban for the fourth offense.

So for a first time offender he would start off with a warning. I think that is a good screen shot to go along with this rule.
_________________
Warcraft 2 Festival VI July 25th-27th!
War2Replays

I don't know... yelling at someone AFTER they fuck up your game by not following instructions is a bit different than just banning everyone, or insulting them for their skill. The newb in question is hurting newbs more than Viruz, because by disobeying their request that he watch he's made it more likely newbs get banned from games in the future.

We don't know how clear they were about what a watcher is ("don't build"), and, like I said, Viruz lost his temper and that's not the best way to handle it. But two lines "are you retarded" and "you fucking imbesil" isn't the end of the world. I fear if we start punishing people for their normal reactions to having their games ruined we could be in for trouble indeed.
_________________
i zero bagged your mother

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend

---

Full disclosure: I almost always let newbs watch, and I always say "do you know how to watch," and make sure they say "yes" first before launching. I also tell them "don't build." If they build anyway, I will probably call them retarded.
_________________
i zero bagged your mother

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend

---

Yamon sucks at life and blows at war2, but he does have a point here. If you're going to have rules on language and monitor behavior for the betterment/prosperity of the community, then there is no better time to enforce such rules then when it comes to foul language towards beginners, because the rest of us have kind of proven we can handle the shit talking for the most part, proof by us still being here after so many years.

We don't know if this is what happened here, but Swift, if they're asked to watch, say they know how to watch, and then build and ruin the game, are you saying players shouldn't be allowed to yell at them? I feel like we shouldn't mistreat the newbs but if they're ruining your game after being instructed on what watching is, that some stern words are in order...lol
_________________
i zero bagged your mother

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend

---

Maybe get another rule drafted up about watchers ruining games?
_________________
Warcraft 2 Festival VI July 25th-27th!
War2Replays

but we don't have to make it a black and white situation blid i agree with you. that's what admins are for.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbL6Gstg954

quote:

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Originally posted by Fast Luck
We don't know if this is what happened here, but Swift, if they're asked to watch, say they know how to watch, and then build and ruin the game, are you saying players shouldn't be allowed to yell at them? I feel like we shouldn't mistreat the newbs but if they're ruining your game after being instructed on what watching is, that some stern words are in order...lol

---

yeah. Viruz was a dick and went too far, that's true. At the same time i think like so many of us would be angry, say 2 lines of "you idiot!" and then rehost. Duno if it will be possible to stop that no matter how many warnings
_________________
i zero bagged your mother

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend

---

I guess we should try, though.
_________________
i zero bagged your mother

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend

---

Just curious, how much does it cost monthly/annually to host the .ru server?

Il? Blid?

quote:

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Originally posted by Swift
Just curious, how much does it cost monthly/annually to host the .ru server?

Il? Blid?

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Swift

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fast Luck
We don't know if this is what happened here, but Swift, if they're asked to watch, say they know how to watch, and then build and ruin the game, are you saying players shouldn't be allowed to yell at them? I feel like we shouldn't mistreat the newbs but if they're ruining your game after being instructed on what watching is, that some stern words are in order...lol

---

Obviously the player that Viruz was talking to could of been a smurf/seasoned player, in which case its a very different scenario. My post is more in relation to your posts about newbs in general. Obviously some are genuine newbs, and others are just players who know the rules and refuse to abide by them.

Although everything you've been saying is true in its own respect, none of what you're saying justifies the way Viruz handled the situation if the player hes talking crap to was a TRUE newb. There are far better ways to handle it besides being a jerk.

I would argue that a good amount of the newbs who doesn't listen to the watcher rules are actually the exact type/"level" of player the new language rules would benefit. Why? First, because I think the players who break the Watcher rules are 50%+ of the time, the brand new newbs, the ones who downloaded the game not too long ago. And, the newbs who get the most crap are 1) the ones who cant follow the watcher rules, and 2) the ones who aren't well versed in the game enough to make for worthy opponents/ally, and otherwise ruin a game for us by their lack of skill.

The thing is though most brand new players don't look at war2 from the perspective of reputation and longevity, so when they're told there are "watchers rules," they don't immediately understand the consequences of making enemies, or getting denied into future games if they break those rules. Instead they're more like a curious cat, or a kid at a candy store because war2 is new and exciting to them and they merely thinking about what fun they can have within that given game.

So although yes it may be true that, newbs who go around ignoring the rules often do more harm for other newbs in the sense that you mentioned, it's still not in favor of a community that is looking to grow to treat these players like crap. Because these players, are often the very newest ones, and the ones who need a warm welcoming even though they're testing our patience. I mean, I would say at least 50%, if not more, of the brand newbs all don't initially listen to the watcher rules when explained, for at least a game or two, often times longer.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swift
Just curious, how much does it cost monthly/annually to host the .ru server?

Il? Blid?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend

---

do you pay the full amount tho?

yea
_________________
i zero bagged your mother

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend

---

double edged sword, guys.

The solution is pretty simple - have some kind of watching tutorial, be it the link from banners, link on website, link in admin/bot profiles or guide on the forums, with the idea of watching THOROUGHLY explained. At the end of such tutorial, there will be a statement "if you have read and understood all this, say 'i am familiar with the watching etiquette' in game."

these, and only these, players will have the 'newbie watching protection' and shouldnt be banned with maybe some kind of consequences to the host.
(note: this shouldnt count in certain customs or pballs, because even the existence of watcher can fuck the game up)
HOWEVER, (this is important!) if a newbie declared he can watch and then he fucks up, he should also be punished.

this is the only way i could agree with such thing, because i dont want newbie/smurfers to be holy cows n fucking the game up that i cant even ban from my own game. That'd be another level of hitlerism. Thats exactly how it is with screenshots - when i get asked for ss, i ask for one in return. Fair.


hosting ranking is a bullshit idea unless its merely for fun
-punishing the 'bad' hosts by admins is retarded and unacceptable
but
-promiting 'good' hosting by awarding special icons, $$ or, ummmm, website interviews(?) is ok.


the oracle has spoken.

quote:

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Originally posted by SoCxYamon
this occured today at 6:30 pm eastern time. Here is an example of a player being bullied. Lets see if anything will be done about it, and how long it takes.
Uh y server ded?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fast Luck
I don't know... yelling at someone AFTER they fuck up your game by not following instructions is a bit different than just banning everyone, or insulting them for their skill. The newb in question is hurting newbs more than Viruz, because by disobeying their request that he watch he's made it more likely newbs get banned from games in the future.

---

quote:

---

The solution is pretty simple - have some kind of watching tutorial, be it the link from banners, link on website, link in admin/bot profiles or guide on the forums, with the idea of watching THOROUGHLY explained. At the end of such tutorial, there will be a statement "if you have read and understood all this, say 'i am familiar with the watching etiquette' in game."

---

If we make this 'terms of watching' magical line happen, not only would the players be ensured the newbie knows how to watch, but if the newb decides to fuck the game up anyway, they'll know justice will come after them.
and if you make it possible to access watching rulz by clicking the banner, 'couldnt find them' will b no excuse.

absolutely understand viruz? bro it takes 5 seconds to rehost. and viruz thinks he's above the rules which he is....

its been the same shit on this server forever. This isn't his first offense, it's like his literal 1,000th. The lack of leadership on this server is why everyone is out of control and the game is dead. of course can't make new admins no sir that would be bad.

i've been banned for hacking 3 times and i've never hacked once.
viruz probably has never been banned.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbL6Gstg954

Last edited by SoCxYamon on Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:13 pm; edited 2 times in total

apparently the newbie was clueless and deserved to be banned in the first place. not everyone is a blood donor, im not giving my fucking kidney to anyone and i sure can understand people too impatient to test whether the newbie wil behave like a reasonable player, especially given the current odds.

punishing viruz is like cutting ones head off, because he has a tooth-ache. So shut your whore mouth you emo-troll.

quote:

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Originally posted by cpt^Claw
apparently the newbie was clueless and deserved to be banned in the first place. not everyone is a blood donor, im not giving my fucking kidney to anyone and i sure can understand people too impatient to test whether the newbie wil behave like a reasonable player, especially given the current odds.

punishing viruz is like cutting ones head off, because he has a tooth-ache. So shut your whore mouth you emo-troll.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by ~iL
[

On community side, while reading this dialog in public chat:
One of the best and respected players Viruz called someone "retarded fucking imbesil". We don't know why, but Viruz is respected person, he'd be right. And good example for us, next time we also call somedody the same names if we dislike him.

---

A perfect example of a feature that I wrote for war2.us that would have avoided this issue is the /observe command. I believe that newbies build because they think you are telling them NOT to build so that you can beat them. It sounds stupid, but if you're new it makes perfect sense. As a new player you're less likely to believe that you really shouldnt build if it's a PLAYER telling you to do it. You dont know if they're kidding or serious. But if the SERVER tells you, then thats completely different. It's also a mechanism to insure that EVERYONE understands who is watching before the game even begins.

When someone typed /obs, it added them to a list of players in the game who are set as an observer. Anyone in the current game could then type /game and see who is on which team as well as who the observers were. This is what it said when someone typed /obs:

"Server: You have been marked as an OBSERVER. You cannot build more than 5 units and 5 buildings. (enough to get 4 balloons in case some jerk does not vis you). If you build any more than this you will be automatically banned from the server for 1 hour".

And a msg to everyone in the game would see:

"Server: XYZ has been marked as an observer"
or
"Server: XYZ has been UNmarked as an observer" if the person canceled the flag.

If the player built, the entire server would be notified with:

"Global: XYZ has been banned for 1 hour for building as a watcher". Then when the player comes back, people will know why they were gone in case the player starts asking questions. It'll also alert everyone that the player is extra retarded in that they couldnt obey rules that they acknowledged before hand.

Of course along with these commands were also /team # <name> where the host could add people to different teams in case the settings were melee. It's also useful for avoiding pvpgn game file corruption for ladder statics, among other things. Coding the /obs command was very trivial, and likely within iL's capability. The team stuff, probably not so much as it was more involved.