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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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war2 and bw are different games and part of what makes war2 interesting in its own right is its map design imho, even if that comes at the expense of competitive balance
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:34 am |
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SoCxEcLiPzE
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 1376
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....No one would ever play Warcraft 2 competitively on a serious level because the game was made at a time before that sort of thing. The game is easy, one dimensional, and broken. At what point will some of you guys realize that as far as war2 goes, "this is it". And it's doing pretty well...much better than most seriously dated games. But there will never be anything but a tiny, tiny community dedicated to this game. Warcraft 3's serious competitive scene is deteriorated away as well... and I don't know of many intelligent non-biased people who would argue that war2 is a "better made game" than war3.
To respond to the original question... nothing would change. At some point, when a game has not been patched or changed in years and years the meta-game stops evolving because quite simply, there is nothing innovative left to do. This is the case with warcraft 2... even warcraft 3 is now in this stage of life.
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I 40-0'd your mother.
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Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:53 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by SoCxEcLiPzE
....No one would ever play Warcraft 2 competitively on a serious level because the game was made at a time before that sort of thing. The game is easy, one dimensional, and broken. At what point will some of you guys realize that as far as war2 goes, "this is it". And it's doing pretty well...much better than most seriously dated games. But there will never be anything but a tiny, tiny community dedicated to this game. Warcraft 3's serious competitive scene is deteriorated away as well... and I don't know of many intelligent non-biased people who would argue that war2 is a "better made game" than war3.
To respond to the original question... nothing would change. At some point, when a game has not been patched or changed in years and years the meta-game stops evolving because quite simply, there is nothing innovative left to do. This is the case with warcraft 2... even warcraft 3 is now in this stage of life.
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quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:57 pm |
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BanMe
Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 2472
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quote:
Originally posted by Shotgun_
No. And you mean, SC maps are all basically just mirror maps like POS. There is nothing really wrong with maps on war2, especially GOW. If war2 had maps like BW no one would ever even make a fortress (Friends 1on1 etc).
It's commonly accepted within most competitive communities that mirror-maps are almost essential for fair competitive play. This spans across RTS, MOBA's, FPS's, etc. It's core to the concept that idea that both sides have an equal chance to win, given equal skill. While you may insist otherwise, most all of us here recognize that getting 8 against 11 in a GOW 1v1 is not a fair fight.
Your comment about not making it to Fortress sounds uninformed. First off, 1v1 friends often goes to fortress - in a rush-ogre war the attacker loses build time, so upgrading is natural. However, that makes no difference because Friends is nothing at all like a BW map. BW and SC maps in general are defined by ramp entrances to bases, natural chokes which are designed to help ensure games do make it to late game, and reduce cheesy all-in rushes. BW maps are designed to allow for early game play, but in general most games make it to mid-late game. The design of the map is then based on the setup of defending your expansion, and then the dynamic of your strategy for picking up and defending 3rd and 4th bases on the map. During all of this you have a large number of battles, each of which could swing the game based on skill, but often even out making for great tension and action.
I guess the problem with war2 in that case would be that the late game is just a bit boring compared to BW, in the same way that mirror matchups are boring in BW. Part of the big interest there is watching the different race battles play out which each depended on different gameplay mechanics to succeed.
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Kanuks - The fact is you and foonew tried a double gay on me and ended up being BOTH behind me. Enough fucking said.
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Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:05 pm |
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BanMe
Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 2472
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quote:
Originally posted by SoCxEcLiPzE
....No one would ever play Warcraft 2 competitively on a serious level because the game was made at a time before that sort of thing. The game is easy, one dimensional, and broken. At what point will some of you guys realize that as far as war2 goes, "this is it". And it's doing pretty well...much better than most seriously dated games. But there will never be anything but a tiny, tiny community dedicated to this game. Warcraft 3's serious competitive scene is deteriorated away as well... and I don't know of many intelligent non-biased people who would argue that war2 is a "better made game" than war3.
To respond to the original question... nothing would change. At some point, when a game has not been patched or changed in years and years the meta-game stops evolving because quite simply, there is nothing innovative left to do. This is the case with warcraft 2... even warcraft 3 is now in this stage of life.
Yes, war2 is not going to be an Olympic sport. We're just talking what ifs, way to be a dick.
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Kanuks - The fact is you and foonew tried a double gay on me and ended up being BOTH behind me. Enough fucking said.
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Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:06 pm |
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SoCxEcLiPzE
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 1376
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quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
quote:
Originally posted by SoCxEcLiPzE
....No one would ever play Warcraft 2 competitively on a serious level because the game was made at a time before that sort of thing. The game is easy, one dimensional, and broken. At what point will some of you guys realize that as far as war2 goes, "this is it". And it's doing pretty well...much better than most seriously dated games. But there will never be anything but a tiny, tiny community dedicated to this game. Warcraft 3's serious competitive scene is deteriorated away as well... and I don't know of many intelligent non-biased people who would argue that war2 is a "better made game" than war3.
To respond to the original question... nothing would change. At some point, when a game has not been patched or changed in years and years the meta-game stops evolving because quite simply, there is nothing innovative left to do. This is the case with warcraft 2... even warcraft 3 is now in this stage of life.
Yes, war2 is not going to be an Olympic sport. We're just talking what ifs, way to be a dick.
Well, in reading your previous post it seems you seem to think that war2 has "room to grow" if only people would pay more attention to it and if magic koreans came to play. I'm taking the exact opposite stance. There is nothing dickish about it... except for making my attempt at crushing a nice guy like burnt's dreams that there is some kind of hope for this game.
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I 40-0'd your mother.
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Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:39 am |
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woofy
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 463
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^ noobs
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Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:56 am |
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Bobbo
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Posts: 1119
Location: Virginia Beach, VA |
Even if the map is mirror, the game itself is not symmetric. The tower bug + the way units pop out of buildings/hop make it impossible to make the 1v1 match ups perfectly even purely through map-symmetrizing. The tower bug is lame, but I wouldn't want to enable rally points for the rax because it would do away with a lot of the strategies which are available.
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Wartoo
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Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:33 am |
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GaNzTheLegend
Joined: 01 Jan 2001
Posts: 8287
Location: Toronto, Canada |
Still not sure why the tower bug wasn't fixed with bnet or any of the patches on it.
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Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:20 pm |
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Swift
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 3223
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tower bug is great and adds to the game
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Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:23 pm |
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GaNzTheLegend
Joined: 01 Jan 2001
Posts: 8287
Location: Toronto, Canada |
Its still a BUG, and in every other game bugs are patched. Only thing it adds to the game is making some spots worse than others.
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Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:24 pm |
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Fast Luck
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 22805
Location: Penis |
it puts greater emphasis on proper placement of towers and helps tower wars have winners/losers rather than ending as long-term repping stalemates. i would NOT patch it out of the game
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i zero bagged your mother
quote:
Originally posted by Fast Luck
hassan-i-asher: majorin in takin pictures
dreamin bout wayne from catalina wine mixers
listen little friend stay outta the deep end
cuz you're less street than vampire weekend
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Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:44 pm |
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Swift
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 3223
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quote:
Originally posted by GaNzTheLegend
Its still a BUG, and in every other game bugs are patched. Only thing it adds to the game is making some spots worse than others.
it adds strategy and depth to the game, their are a lot of prevention and counter moves to combat the bug, and it's also very easy to setup and use.
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Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:06 pm |
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Allstar
Joined: 23 Sep 2000
Posts: 2509
Location: Texas |
considering the way blizzard made the campaign maps, i doubt very seriously they had any idea the impact it would have firing out of the top left tile. they literally don't have a thousandth of the skill/info we do now, or did, i mean.
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Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:03 pm |
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foonat
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 7716
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^ban
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quote:
Originally posted by smurf_king
i rather be a pedophile than a homo
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Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:47 am |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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quote:
Originally posted by foonat
^ban
A ban for this admitted deranged pedophile is long overdue.
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:30 am |
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BanMe
Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 2472
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quote:
Originally posted by SoCxEcLiPzE
Well, in reading your previous post it seems you seem to think that war2 has "room to grow" if only people would pay more attention to it and if magic koreans came to play. I'm taking the exact opposite stance. There is nothing dickish about it... except for making my attempt at crushing a nice guy like burnt's dreams that there is some kind of hope for this game.
No, I don't. The OP is how "MIGHT" koreans play war2. It's obviously a hypothetical. stfu
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Kanuks - The fact is you and foonew tried a double gay on me and ended up being BOTH behind me. Enough fucking said.
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Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:06 pm |
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hassan-i-sabbah
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 27424
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He's right.
_________________
quote:
Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.
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Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:10 pm |
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SoCxEcLiPzE
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 1376
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quote:
Originally posted by BanMe
quote:
Originally posted by SoCxEcLiPzE
Well, in reading your previous post it seems you seem to think that war2 has "room to grow" if only people would pay more attention to it and if magic koreans came to play. I'm taking the exact opposite stance. There is nothing dickish about it... except for making my attempt at crushing a nice guy like burnt's dreams that there is some kind of hope for this game.
No, I don't. The OP is how "MIGHT" koreans play war2. It's obviously a hypothetical. stfu
What a huge fucking idiot you are lol
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I 40-0'd your mother.
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Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:48 pm |
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Sparkz102
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 2999
Location: War2 |
Koreans tremble in the presence of the Mighty Sparkz
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I am also a contradiction of my own lies
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Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:13 pm |
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GaNzTheLegend
Joined: 01 Jan 2001
Posts: 8287
Location: Toronto, Canada |
koreans are the best at every game, its in their DNA.
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Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:44 am |
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KingHillBilly
Joined: 24 Oct 2000
Posts: 1154
Location: California |
Koreans suck at dota 2: Your statement is false.
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Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:39 pm |
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x
Joined: 31 Oct 2001
Posts: 1634
Location: Athens, GA |
quote:
Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
war2 and bw are different games and part of what makes war2 interesting in its own right is its map design imho, even if that comes at the expense of competitive balance
I agree. While war2 maps aren't 100% balanced, I'd suffer a 10% balance variability for an interesting map. You just don't see maze- or gow-like maps anymore, which have potential for some crazy games compared to mirror-maps.
And I'd argue that it can still be competitive, so long as a series is played, its length dependent on the imbalance variability.
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Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:39 pm |
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