yeah you want charge but colossus is more essential, i'd take regular zealots with two colossi over charged zealots and some templars. if this is late-mid game that's different and that's usually when i'd use templars against a bioball, but if i'm pushing kind of early (around ~40-50 supply) vs a terran medic/marauder you're not going to be able to get templars with storm fast enough

i dont think a templar will completely decimate either, at least not more than a colossus. again if you're not in the late game and you're trying to push on him as soon as you have one or two templars your temps aren't going to have enough energy for more than two psi storms
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ~Dakine..HeX
stalkers arent useless because they WILL have medivacs, you dont need to mass stalkers but you are going to need to take out those medivacs asap.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

i dont think having 2 colossi at 40-45 units is usually feasible against someone that knows what they are doing (i.e.: scouts you), if you are teching that fast (2 colossi is 400 gas and 12 units) you are probably going to get hosed by a rush

maybe its more like 60, i dunno, i dont watch my supply that close other than to see when i need more of it. but its pretty easy to get colossi pretty fast if you go straight robo and then bay, boost your robo facility, don't waste gas on anything but a sentry for defense and pump zealots. from what i've gathered its a pretty standard toss counter to medic/marauder, i didn't just make this up
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

I'd also like to point out that ghostnuke is playing in copper league with players that probably kill their own units to watch the explosions

i'm not in copper league tho? ask some good toss players about the viability of early templars vs colossi against marine/marauder plz, this isn't bw
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hassan-i-sabbah
maybe its more like 60, i dunno, i dont watch my supply that close other than to see when i need more of it. but its pretty easy to get colossi pretty fast if you go straight robo and then bay, boost your robo facility, don't waste gas on anything but a sentry for defense and pump zealots. from what i've gathered its a pretty standard toss counter to medic/marauder, i didn't just make this up

---

well if hes heavy on the marauders then yeah, you definitely want immortals over colossus
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

hhahahah damnit you moved up, and are no longer the laughing stock of my friends list

ya i haven't played any rts games in 2-3 years and then jumped right into 1v1 basically so i lost a lot

at any rate the leagues aren't that great at determining skill (not that i'm really good or anything), and you don't have to be a pro to figure out some strats just aren't as viable as others, especially if you actually read what people who are good at the game say
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

high templar with storm and colossi are both very good counters to terran bio.

the problem is if you're teching to ht and they find out they will hit you before you have it 100% and you're in trouble because you teched. it's important to hide your archives so their scan won't see it

just to give you some numbers in terms of gas:

it takes 650 gas to get a high templar out with storm researched and storm also takes a long time to research

it takes 500 gas to get a colossus out

it takes 800 gas for 2 ht's + storm

it takes 900 gas for 2 colossi + range upgrade

you're also gonna want a sentry or 2 at all times which are 100 gas a piece. the colossus will help you out against an early push because you can get it quicker but it will fall fairly quickly without the range upgrade, though a templar would be useless before you have storm researched

thx for the numbers thats basically what i was thinking. templars imo just take too long with all the research you need. i forgot about the colossus range upgrade which is important, but two unupgraded colossi with a sentry guarding them is obviously a lot better than two templars that don't have storm researched
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

you absolutely need templars every game vs terran. there really isn't much of a counter to MMM+Ghost aside from feedback/psi storm. if you don't have templars, I'll just emp your army and shitstomp you.

yeah I think it depends on the map (how big it is) and what's going on in the game but I find that a lot of people overlook templars right now. I have yet to see anyone templar drop drones

quote:

---

Originally posted by Soilent Green
you absolutely need templars every game vs terran. there really isn't much of a counter to MMM+Ghost aside from feedback/psi storm. if you don't have templars, I'll just emp your army and shitstomp you.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

i'm starting to get annoyed with zerg. They're fucking bad against terran in the early/mid game.

Yeah I'm still figuring out this matchup (now that terran players have figured it out). Again my biggest problem is not fighting their army pound for pound, but with marines / dropships / ghosts / vikings they have a mobile army and can keep a semi contain on, and then they can expand freely with planetary fortress allowing them the win in the long game. I have been using 1-2 immortal into colossus openings which lets me live for awhile but you do need feedback from high templar to really be able to get an edge on a good terran due to EMP. Colossus actually aren't that amazing vs shielded marines with dropships - you have to get weapons +3 to one shot them. And because it takes 2 shots, they heal in between shots, not to mention alot of the time u have to move colossus back from viking fire. I'm gonna start trying immortal into templar. Already tried going DT into templar but its too slow to stop a marauder rush and they will jsut micro around ur base and shoot shit while ur dt's chase them.
_________________
Kanuks - The fact is you and foonew tried a double gay on me and ended up being BOTH behind me. Enough fucking said.

Don't know much about toss, but from looking at the tech trees, it seems like going templar isn't very cost effective. Collosus with range upgrade seems to be the best bet. Why?

-It is along the same tech tree as immortals, which is what you are getting anyways.
-They have sick range with upgrade
-They *are* the most mobile unit in the game. They can walk up and down cliffs, ffs! With decent micro, you can really do a lot of damage.

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman@can
i'm starting to get annoyed with zerg. They're fucking bad against terran in the early/mid game.

---

yeah I think I'll try that. Lately I've been doing a lot of roach openings cause I was catching a lot of players off guard early by raiding their depot wallins and micro raping them but this hasn't worked for like 5 games in a row

bnet down~

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sypher
Don't know much about toss, but from looking at the tech trees, it seems like going templar isn't very cost effective. Collosus with range upgrade seems to be the best bet. Why?

-It is along the same tech tree as immortals, which is what you are getting anyways.
-They have sick range with upgrade
-They *are* the most mobile unit in the game. They can walk up and down cliffs, ffs! With decent micro, you can really do a lot of damage.

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman@can
i'm starting to get annoyed with zerg. They're fucking bad against terran in the early/mid game.

---

ZvT is pretty easy. Just open speedling/baneling. They pretty much can't do shit. Banelings are pretty OP right now vs MMM.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Soilent Green

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sypher
Don't know much about toss, but from looking at the tech trees, it seems like going templar isn't very cost effective. Collosus with range upgrade seems to be the best bet. Why?

-It is along the same tech tree as immortals, which is what you are getting anyways.
-They have sick range with upgrade
-They *are* the most mobile unit in the game. They can walk up and down cliffs, ffs! With decent micro, you can really do a lot of damage.

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman@can
i'm starting to get annoyed with zerg. They're fucking bad against terran in the early/mid game.

---

ZvT is pretty easy. Just open speedling/baneling. They pretty much can't do shit. Banelings are pretty OP right now vs MMM.

---

Even with the range upgrade I can still move my MMM away and harass the colossus with vikings. If I happen to get an EMP off while doing that, the colossus is owned, and so is your army. The most effective weapon against MMM, in my opinion, is to use your normal build, but also use templar psi storm. Although I'm getting better at moving out of the psi storm, or completely avoiding it all together before they cast it, when it catches me off guard I usually lose.

---

I haven't really found a use for ravens. They've got those deployable turrets but I don't think they're any good

yeah against toss emp is an unavoidable instant psi storm that does more damage and removes energy from templar, toss's 1 of only 2 units that can actually do shit to light armored ranged units
_________________
Kanuks - The fact is you and foonew tried a double gay on me and ended up being BOTH behind me. Enough fucking said.

i hate mutas :\
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

TD/Scrubbo i will be playing on sat night big time. Hit me up and teach me some Sc2
_________________

so what do any of the good p players here do vs zerg? generally fast mutas and fast expand, that's where i have the most trouble. seems hard to react to mutas by the time you scout it and fast expand he can hold off early zealot rush and harass with queen-boosted speedlings (especially on a map with long walking distance like desert oasis). is it better to ignore the expo at first and just go to his main and take out his queen/drones?
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---

on the off chance that any of the old eur0s check this bitch, Bash.Bash on EU is me.

top15~ gold

Last edited by Bash on Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman@can
I'd also like to point out that ghostnuke is playing in copper league with players that probably kill their own units to watch the explosions

---

im actually 14 on gold
_________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by turtleman
A normal person wouldn't say that in real life because it's ridiculous and insulting. Yet here you are spouting the most hateful garbage that your demons can muster out of your darkened soul. All because of the internet.

---